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Quote from: David Cooper on 25/07/2022 00:14:33It's a standard way of putting things where they will hardly ever be seen by anything other than bots, so yes.Citation please. It takes just as many clicks to get to New Theories as it does to get to any other forum here.
It's a standard way of putting things where they will hardly ever be seen by anything other than bots, so yes.
There is very rarely any reward from reading things in New Theories
so the people who would be interested in the question that this thread poses will not see it.
But it's your forum you're sabotaging, so that's up to you.
It isn't something that needs references, so you should not be demanding any. If your model doesn't conform to the requirements of STR, it will enable you to measure absolute speeds with ease, so GTR has to include STR as part of itself in order to fit observations.
GTR also has to conform to our 3D Euclidean view of events while doing its 4D stuff
LET describes what you get in that 3D Euclidean view
The two ways of looking at it necessarily map to each other and you don't need a reference to understand that.
That's why whenever I employ LET as a tool for viewing the action
When LET and STR tell you what these lines of black holes
... what these lines of black hole look like as they approach each other before the gravitational interaction becomes significant (due to the extreme contraction of the gravity wells - no amount of applying GTR can change that because the gravity acting on each line from the other is so weak up to that point and cannot affect the 3D Euclidean view of the action)
"What [the boat] it zigzags downwind and there's very little drag against the water? It might be able to go downwind faster than the wind." Someone might then object by saying, "Nonsense: by definition a sailing boat cannot go downwind faster than the wind, so you cannot be talking about a sailing boat!
Guess what the LET in CLET stands for. Doug Marett's site dates back before that and deals with LET and how it covers the same ground as GTR. You ought to remember this page; http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/Conspiracy.html
I invite to to cite sources for your claims, and not sources from science denial sites.
the necessity of both theories to generate the same 3D view of the action as they're applying the same maths, there is no cause to dispute them.
People who actually work on LET with this simple addition of having light slow down in gravity wells do call it LET.
I did explain why your idea that a line of black holes doesn't suddenly have a single singularity in it the moment the event horizons connect.
Quote from: David Cooper on 25/07/2022 04:17:37so the people who would be interested in the question that this thread poses will not see it.A Google search of "photon escape event horizon" links directly to this thread. So anyone looking for the answer to that question can still find it easily.
Quote from: David Cooper on 25/07/2022 00:14:33It's a standard way of putting things where they will hardly ever be seen by anything other than bots, so yes.If that was true, we wouldn't be commenting on it.
If it had been put there to begin with, it would have been in the wrong place and you wouldn't have commented on it.
But then it must also conform to GTR’s geometry, and your assertions deviate from that.
Calling a hypothetical unwritten theory ‘ LET’ seems a mistake.
The references for which we're asking are the ones that violate GTR:QuoteGTR also has to conform to our 3D Euclidean view of events while doing its 4D stuffBut GTR includes the effects of gravity and thus is not confined to Euclidean 3D space like STR is. Space is not Euclidean under GTR, so if it is under the hypothetical LET theory, it no longer can use GTR mathematics, and we need a reference for the new mathematics that maintains consistent empirical measurements. You don’t give this because no such theory exists.
SET does not suggest Euclidean 3D space as its preferred frame. The frame is the harmonic coordinate condition, a coordinate condition in GTR which makes it possible to solve the Einstein field equations. This is a non-linearly expanding metric, which Euclidean space is not.
SET is not just a trivial hand-wave, saying everything GTR says is true, but there's a preferred foliation. It derives everything from completely different premises. It very much has differences. Like any absolute interpretation, the preferred frame doesn't foliate all of spacetime, so black holes, wormholes and such cannot exist.
There can be no black hole event horizon at all.
The big bang must be replaced by a big bounce, perhaps to solve the issue of 'something from nothing' that you get with a model with the universe being contained by time, instead of time being contained by the universe as in GTR, but I didn't actually see if SET posits universe contained by time. LET doesn't posit this, but nLET (another incomplete theory) does.
QuoteLET describes what you get in that 3D Euclidean viewThat's the claim that needs the reference.
A 3D Euclidean view with slowed physics makes different predictions, such as the angles of physical rigid triangles adding up to 180°. You're essentially making claims of a nonexistent theory.
If space is Euclidean but light (and other motion) merely slows down based on the dilation equations for gravitational potential, you'd get different times for light to get from A to B through a gravity well. By positing this Euclidean assertion, you throw away all the mathematics of GTR that uses a different geometry, and yes, this completely new way of doing it very much does need a reference.
QuoteThe two ways of looking at it necessarily map to each other and you don't need a reference to understand that.I actually agree with this, but if they map to each other, then the space under gravity is necessarily non-Euclidean.
SET (the only generalization of LET of which I am aware) does not agree with your assertions.
QuoteThat's why whenever I employ LET as a tool for viewing the actionIf you're matching GTR descriptions, then you’re using GTR despite calling it LET.
If you're making up new rules that contradict GTR, then it needs an actual theory behind it to make the new predictions since the GTR mathematics no longer apply. That needs justification, or it is just 'making up your physics'.
QuoteWhen LET and STR tell you what these lines of black holesNeither LET nor STR deal with black holes.
Quote... what these lines of black hole look like as they approach each other before the gravitational interaction becomes significant (due to the extreme contraction of the gravity wells - no amount of applying GTR can change that because the gravity acting on each line from the other is so weak up to that point and cannot affect the 3D Euclidean view of the action)This assertion not backed by mathematics. I tried to point this out in an earlier post, but you don't seem interested in actually working it out. This is another reason for the topic to be in new theories.
This is entirely valid. Based on the definition of sailing boat you gave, the thing you describe isn’t a sailing boat. Ditto for event horizon.
We did have a thread on a sailing ‘car’ that did go directly down wind (no tacking) faster than the wind, or even directly upwind. With a similar definition, we’d have to call it something else.
Ah, an actual reference! I was actually wondering if you would bring up this crackpot site.
conspiracyoflight is very much a science denial site. It asserts that GTR and even STR is wrong
It became a classroom exercise to take any random article listed on that site and find the flaw in it. It isn’t difficult. Pick one if you want a demonstration. This is actually the site you choose to back your claims?
Quotethe necessity of both theories to generate the same 3D view of the action as they're applying the same maths, there is no cause to dispute them.But you’re asserting an alternate 3D view, so the dispute stands.
QuotePeople who actually work on LET with this simple addition of having light slow down in gravity wells do call it LET.OK. That claim come right from GTR, so they can stick on the label if they want, despite the lack of an actual theory that does it. But when the claims diverge from GTR, then it becomes something that needs backing since the backing of GTR is lost.
QuoteI did explain why your idea that a line of black holes doesn't suddenly have a single singularity in it the moment the event horizons connect.I never asserted otherwise.
I have my account set up so it tells me about any new posts; it doesn't look at which sub-forum they are in.Since what you asked has a very obvious answer, I would have commented on it regardless- even if you had accidentally put it in biology or whatever.
You need to get over yourself.
This is all about doing and discussing science properly while maximising the utility of the forum for readers and putting the right ideas and questions in the right places for them to find them with minimal effort.
Well, we'll never know if that last bit's the case, but most readers of the forum look at new theories once and once only.
Quote from: David Cooper on 25/07/2022 21:29:27This is all about doing and discussing science properly while maximising the utility of the forum for readers and putting the right ideas and questions in the right places for them to find them with minimal effort.Quite possibly the best chances of getting your thread noticed by that sort of person would be to have it presented in the "new theories" section.
I quite like this forum but I think you might be over-estimating the readership. For example, most people lecturing or actively engaged in research in Physics don't make a routine of logging in to this site on a Monday morning to discuss what's new in it with other members of staff.
I'm sorry if you feel your time was wasted. Everyone who has spent some time here adding replies is suffering the same fate. I know I put in a few hours trying to create some good replies including diagrams and animations. Halc's replies also look like they took him some time.
David,Welcome back, long time no see.
I would certainly be interested to see a serious, in detail discussion on how LET handles gravity.
Quote from: Colin2B on 26/07/2022 09:25:42David,Welcome back, long time no see.Thanks. I haven't been well but am on the mend. Hope all's well with you. What happened to Pete? I'm worried at the lack of any sign of him.
Sorry to bring sad news, Pete died after a long illness.
Glad to hear you are improving, had intended to reply to your other post, but the covid hit and I’m just recovering.