The Naked Scientists
Toggle navigation
Login
Register
Podcasts
The Naked Scientists
eLife
Naked Genetics
Naked Astronomy
In short
Naked Neuroscience
Ask! The Naked Scientists
Question of the Week
Archive
Video
SUBSCRIBE to our Podcasts
Articles
Science News
Features
Interviews
Answers to Science Questions
Get Naked
Donate
Do an Experiment
Science Forum
Ask a Question
About
Meet the team
Our Sponsors
Site Map
Contact us
User menu
Login
Register
Search
Home
Help
Search
Tags
Member Map
Recent Topics
Login
Register
Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side
New Theories
Does science assume aether
« previous
next »
Print
Pages:
1
[
2
]
Go Down
Does science assume aether
22 Replies
3324 Views
1 Tags
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
paul cotter
Naked Science Forum King!
1823
Activity:
31%
Thanked: 217 times
forum grump
Re: Does science assume aether
«
Reply #20 on:
10/12/2022 20:14:19 »
This is getting tiresome. There is no evidence for the existence of "aether". We can't prove or disprove it's existence, therefore it has NO place in real science. Science is based on observations and subsequent theories based on these observations. Wild speculation on what might be, without a scintilla of evidence, belongs in pseudoscience.
Logged
Did I really say that?
alancalverd
Global Moderator
Naked Science Forum GOD!
19477
Activity:
80.5%
Thanked: 1658 times
life is too short to drink instant coffee
Re: Does science assume aether
«
Reply #21 on:
11/12/2022 00:02:26 »
Aether was a fairly logical guess when radio transmission was discovered. We knew that information can be transmitted by waves in solids, liquids and gases, and now we had the means of measuring wavelength, frequency and velocity of something rather more tractable than light, so the first guess would be that it was carried by some other medium.
Early radio textbooks used "compression of the aether" to explain radio propagation to soldiers, sailors and aviators who needed a quick and practical understanding of phenomena such as frequency, wavelength, diffraction, reflection, dispersion, interference and attenuation that could be visualised with ripples on water and which profoundly affected their life-critical use of the medium.
Maxwell actually derived his propagation equations as theoretical models of "fluctuations in a medium" with properties of permittivity ε and permeability μ. The power of this approach is in allowing us to model and predict propagation in any medium, but the observation that EM radiation propagates through a vacuum at a finite speed independent of direction requires us to assign values to ε
0
and μ
0
analogous to those of a real medium.
The problem with "fluctuations of the aether" is the calculated elastic modulus and density of the material - the properties that determine the speed of waves. It has to be orders of magnitude stiffer than any known material and orders of magnitude less dense. We have no concept of a less dense material than hydrogen, or a stiffer material than, say, carbon steel. This is the point at which the search for aether becomes somewhat problematic as it also must have zero viscosity (or the planets would spiral into the sun) and its mechanical properties must be independent of the amplitude and frequency of the wave over at least a range of 10
18
- a degree of linearity unmatched by any other medium.
Therefore the minimum assumption is that Maxwell's model holds true in the absence of any medium, as long as we can assign independent experimental values to ε
0
and μ
0
. It turns out that the values we measure from electrostatic and magnetostatic experiments (no need for any compressible medium as nothing is moving) give us the observed value for c.
Thus no requirement for an aether.
«
Last Edit: 11/12/2022 00:04:42 by
alancalverd
»
Logged
helping to stem the tide of ignorance
The following users thanked this post:
pasala
,
hamdani yusuf
,
paul cotter
hamdani yusuf
Naked Science Forum GOD!
9784
Activity:
90%
Thanked: 285 times
Re: Does science assume aether
«
Reply #22 on:
11/12/2022 06:29:38 »
AFAIK, every model of aether that has been proposed so far makes predictions contrary to at least one experimental result. Thus, this word comes with too much baggage for anyone who wants to propose a new theory of light. Perhaps it would be better for them to invent a new word for their idea.
Logged
Unexpected results come from false assumptions.
The following users thanked this post:
Bored chemist
Print
Pages:
1
[
2
]
Go Up
« previous
next »
Tags:
aether
There was an error while thanking
Thanking...