[yor_on]

Defining it economically is the same as asking what the cost of your life is?

The cost of a bullet?

[yor_on]

What irritates me a little is the way it seem to look at it as also becoming a moral question. That may be my bias but I see it as a question of rights, that are the same for everyone, and everything. If you define your life as a right, equal to anyone's else life, then there are no moral questions about it.


syntax

[yor_on]

But it's like I tell you. This game can't afford rights.

[yor_on]

So predictable.

" But phasing out Russian gas means coal-fired power plants “might also be used longer than initially expected”, states the EU strategy. The decision to quit Russian gas has also led to a scramble to increase Europe’s imports of liquefied natural gas (LNG) from countries such as the US and Qatar, as well as pipeline gas from Azerbaijan.

The commission said it would be necessary to spend up to €12bn – about 6% of the extra €210bn needed – to build LNG terminals and upgrade oil plants to allow EU member states to switch to non-Russian fossil fuels. "

Nope, that's not the real 'investment'. That's 'green washing' it. and the result will be more fracking, more oil and gas extractions from all involved, even with those not involved. You're becoming such a worst case scenario that I sometimes has to wonder if anything of this is real

Two decades and you're going to lose this one.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/18/eu-plans-massive-increase-in-green-energy-to-rid-itself-of-reliance-on-russia

[yor_on]

The real problem is this game, and the way it keeps you locked inside it. You can't see outside it at all. You might not even want to.

Well, your extinction, your way. If you just could keep the rest of us outside it.

[yor_on]

Well, I don't think you have a alternative. And if I was you I would look at what it would cost to maintain them for another thirty years before dismantling them. We have solar, wind etc. They all build on what we need to move from. A infinite world of infinite resources. Rare earths and metals, plastic composites etc etc etc. There is no perfect solution here, but we will still need them all. Well, maybe geothermal, like for Island is a 'green' solution, but I doubt it. If you take a look I'm sure you will find the same reliance on materials that our modern 'wind mills' use, and rare earths of course in electronics etc.

we should be able to find new types of compostable composites, but it's not 'profitable'. Plastics are cheap, and are going to become 'cheaper' if the oil and gas industry gets its way.

You see. everything has a price under this game, and if its not 'profitable', we won't do it.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/20/uk-nuclear-power-stations-decommissioning-cost

[yor_on]

I would like to see more of this

"  “It’s just so clear to me that I have to take this stand,” said Peter Kalmus, a Nasa climate scientist as he handcuffed himself to a JPMorgan Chase building during a protest in Los Angeles last month. “We are heading towards cuddling  catastrophe – we are going to lose everything.” "

Forcing you to wake up.  https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/19/climate-suicides-despair-global-heating

[yor_on]

And I don't think he used 'cuddling' in that sentence.

[yor_on]

And you need my democracy to change it. But that won't come unless you yourself is able to change.

[yor_on]

There is a point to all this denial and defending I see. It's the same point as when people start to worry about those getting desperate. watching us steadfastly marching to extinction. The point of making you wonder if there really can be a truth to it. You don't want that, you want your politicans to tell you that they will fix it, and they do tell you that they will.

[yor_on]

The ones with the most to lose on a change, promising you change, right?

[yor_on]

Don't blame them, blame yourself.

[yor_on]

There is no democracy. Mr Putin is perfectly correct on that one, at any side. And Mr Trump is perfectly correct in warning you about letting democracy come into existence.

It would destroy the game.

[yor_on]

The sore point is that without destroying it you will go extinct.

[yor_on]

What we can do, as no solution cover it all and becomes perfectly 'green' is to minimize the need for those materials, f.ex good public transportation combined with a ban on personal transportation. It would mean us rearranging all infra structures. You can look to 'developing countries' for ideas of how this might work out, and we can make them even better using AI. But there is this window of opportunity for it, the one you're squandering away.

two decades.

[yor_on]

In the end it becomes a final verdict. Of us. If we can't change.

failed

[alancalverd]

They found the 2010 heatwave was 100 times more likely in our hotter world.

Wow! And they got paid for it too?

[yor_on]

Let's hope they do, Alan. :)

You could make a argument for us staying on the fence, being 'scientific' about those uncertainties involved in any type of prediction.. And it makes sense, unless that option becomes one leading us to a extinction. Swimming a river filled with crocodiles stating that as you haven't seen any it should be okay is a pretty dumb option. Because if you're wrong..

[yor_on]

I would say that climate science has been trying too hard, and too long, to be 'scientific' about this. It's time to panic a little, if I'm right in those two decades being what we have left. I don't like it myself and I would dearly want to extend it to three, or more. But I wouldn't be honest if I did.

[yor_on]

If we take the time for constructing a new nuclear power plant I've seen the time span for it stretching between three to ?  I think some thirty years as a worst case example. I guess it should at least, with planning and all, take 4 to 5 years as some median? And then you need a consensus on that we need them, before anything like that will happen. So let's say around 7 to 10 years? And we're already losing this decade. And the longer people think that this earth still can be treated as if it was infinite, with a infinite amount of 'cheap' resources as rare earths, plastic composites etc, being no problem, and economically viable, the longer it will take.