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a rock that has ... mass, but we don't know what the mass really is
so is the mass = charge and the charge is directly proportional to the mass?
Quote from: Theboxa rock that has ... mass, but we don't know what the mass really isWe do know what the mass of a rock is, by "weighing" it.There are a number of ways of measuring the mass of things:- Some methods (like bathroom scales) really do measure weight, and will give the wrong answer for mass in a different gravitational field, such as on the Moon- Some methods (like a balance scale) will give the right answer in any gravitational field (but fails in zero gravity)- Some methods (like measuring the frequency of a vibrating spring) can work in zero gravity Quoteso is the mass = charge and the charge is directly proportional to the mass?No, the mass and charge are independent.- You can have the same mass (eg 1kg), but have a charge of 0, 1 electron, 2 electrons, etc (or a deficit of 1 electron, 2 electrons, etc)- You can have a very different mass (eg 2kg), but have the same charge of 2 electrons (or a deficit of 2 electrons)- The mass of an electron is so small compared to the mass of the rock that you could say that the charge does not affect the mass in any measurable way.- If you get down to the level of a single (light) atom, you probably could measure the difference in mass between a single-charged and dual-charged ion in a mass spectrograph. But for objects visible to the naked eye, the mass of an electron can be ignored.Millikan's oil-drop experiment was able to measure the charge on the electron by measuring the charge on an oil droplet when subjected to radioactive source. This did not change the mass of the oil droplet in any measurable way, but it did change the charge on the droplet.See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_drop_experiment
however science can not explain what mass is in detail, they can only explain it in kg.
The electron can't have mass and charge,
Quote from: Thebox on 30/07/2017 12:25:17The electron can't have mass and charge,In reality, it does.You need to understand that when reality doesn't agree with you, it isn't because reality has made a mistake.
Quote from: Thebox on 30/07/2017 12:25:17however science can not explain what mass is in detail, they can only explain it in kg. Nohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_generation
The Higgs boson and Z boson do not have any electric charge, yet they both have mass. Current evidence points to the neutrino having mass as well. The electron, muon and tauon all have different masses despite having identical electric charges. There is no obvious connection between charge and mass.
I have only ever found a link between stable forms of matter and charge. This involves the up and down quark and the electron. It is however asymmetrical. So no there is no direct proportionality between mass and charge.PS this implies a broken symmetry is required to maintain the stability of atoms.
The more charge an atom gains , the more it ''pulls back'' by the attraction properties of charge on charge. The strong nuclear force is this.
Quote from: Thebox on 30/07/2017 15:12:20The more charge an atom gains , the more it ''pulls back'' by the attraction properties of charge on charge. The strong nuclear force is this. No it isn't. If charge and mass are the same thing how come a positron has the same charge as a proton, but a different mass?
Quote from: Bored chemist on 30/07/2017 16:26:35Quote from: Thebox on 30/07/2017 15:12:20The more charge an atom gains , the more it ''pulls back'' by the attraction properties of charge on charge. The strong nuclear force is this. No it isn't. If charge and mass are the same thing how come a positron has the same charge as a proton, but a different mass?Because charge is dynamic. What is a positron lol? sounds made upadded- thank you they have the same mass''The positron or antielectron is the antiparticle or the antimatter counterpart of the electron. The positron has an electric charge of +1 e, a spin of 1/2 (same as electron), and has the same mass as an electron.''
A rock has mass and atomic charge but shows no net charge.
Quote from: Thebox on 30/07/2017 15:09:34A rock has mass and atomic charge but shows no net charge. Unlike atoms, there is no evidence that fundamental particles like neutrinos and Z bosons have internal, electrically-charged components. The fact that neutrinos only interact via the gravitational and weak nuclear force and are not affected by electric fields further demonstrates this point. This is why neutrinos interact so rarely with atomic matter.
If something has entropy then that something can retain energy in some form or is an energy in some form.
Neutrinos are observed like atoms? or are neutrinos a bit made up? Made up things should not come into the thinking.
added- The neutrinos have lost the ability to hold charge?
added- Neutrinos are both charges so observed neutral?
Quote from: Thebox on 30/07/2017 17:53:22If something has entropy then that something can retain energy in some form or is an energy in some form.I don't know what that has to do with your proposal of charge and mass being the same.QuoteNeutrinos are observed like atoms? or are neutrinos a bit made up? Made up things should not come into the thinking.Neutrinos are not "made up". That have been detected repeatedly, can be created in particle accelerators and have even been used to communicate with: http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2012/mar/19/neutrino-based-communication-is-a-firstQuoteadded- The neutrinos have lost the ability to hold charge?Then they should be massless, according to your reasoning. They are not massless.Quoteadded- Neutrinos are both charges so observed neutral?If neutrinos contained positive and negative charges, even if they balanced out to be neutral, then they would be able to interact via the electromagnetic force and thus would interact with atomic matter far more easily.
Made up things should not come into the thinking.
Quote from: Thebox on 30/07/2017 17:53:22 Made up things should not come into the thinking. Well stop making stuff up then."Light is massless and has no charge unlike a rock that has charge and mass,"The idea that a rock has charge is a thing you have made up."Coulumb's law also uses Newtons, are you sure the mass of the object is not newtons of force being applied by the charge? "Is another This "The electron can't have mass and charge," is not only made up but factually wrong.You made this up too."Because charge is dynamic. " And so on.
When the electromagnetic theory is expressed using the standard SI units, force is measured in newtons, charge in coulombs, and distance in metres.