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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: Yesterday at 18:16:17 »

And Collin, instead of trying to ridicule it, why not ban it? Or would that send the wrong signal?

I’m not trying to ridicule anything, neither have I done so. I’m just trying to understand what you are saying.
Fractal democracies are representational, that’s how they were designed eg https://edeneos.org/#section-hiw and it’s beyond my power or inclination to ban them!
You appear to be using the name without explaining how your system works or differs

As for if it would be a 'fractal democracy', this one I prefer.

" The next fern you encounter will provide a great illustration of these features if you pause for a closer look. First, notice that the shape of the fern is intricately detailed. Remarkably, you can see that the leaves are shaped like little copies of the branches.

In fact, the entire fern is mostly built up from the same basic shape repeated over and over again at ever smaller scales. Most astonishing of all, fractal mathematics reveals that this humble fern leaf is neither a one- nor an two-dimensional shape, but hovers somewhere in-between."

Yes, I expect it to work so. It would have the same structure no matter if it was a parish voting, or a nation. It's scale able.

We all know what fractals are, but how are they applied to a democracy? Your ‘explanation’ is meaningless unless you can show what it is that is scaleable! You haven’t described anything.

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: Yesterday at 14:48:25 »

I can only reply in general terms Collin. The main difference is that Alan still have a trust in hierarchies

No use talking in general terms yorr_on. You have to be very specific as Alan has.

I would like a fractal system to be decoupled from such, as good as possible. And the best I've come up with is this, its 'objectivity' not controlled by the few, over the many.

What he describes is the true fractal democracy. Think of it as an upside down hierarchy, driven from the bottom up with, rapid feedback and the power to remove representatives instantly if they don’t fulfil their remit.

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Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology / Re: How are physical units defined?

« on: Yesterday at 08:47:56 »

Measuring distance is (or at least used to be) one of the most important lessons in elementary physics.

It still is. The concept of distance and it’s measurement is also a key feature of most elementary education.

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: Yesterday at 08:42:12 »

Collin, if you really read me you would find that I at no point suggested that I should hold any reins of a change,

Yorr_on, it was intended as a tongue in cheek comment  Don’t take it seriously.
However, the problem still exists, how do you ensure factually correct and balanced information is presented to the electorate.

The advantage of the trade union system is that choices are not presented top-down. Policies evolve bottom-up by compromise between groups with different needs - as evidenced by sea-going toilet paper. Until you get to a parliament, no vote involves more than 20 people, who have a common interest and specific mandates. And at the parliamentary level (say 200 people) there are no parties, only individuals mandated to represent their regional interests and seek the best national consensus.

This is what I understood to be the fractal democracy system. Usually the lowest level has an odd number eg 7 to avoid stalemate. It also has the advantage of instant feedback on policy. For example, this problem with democracy could be avoided “Liz Cheney: Trump arch-enemy ousted in Wyoming election” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62569056
In a fractal democracy the voters would have been able to steer her in the direction they wanted at the time, rather than have to wait months to make their feelings known.

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: 16/08/2022 23:25:03 »

No, not the one I would like, in where we create a way to make presentations of choices as unbiased as possible. It was still part of the game and as I think, still controlled by it. That's a major problem with all types of voting, and it will take time to correct. And I don't know enough of how those votes was collected, and counted, to state that it really was a equivalence to a 'fractal democracy' either.

Fractal democracies are independent of any voting system. Take the example Alan gave, show of hands. They were originally intended to be low tech.
You mention 2 aspects of voting:
- Integrity of the voting system. Even a fair system can be claimed to be rigged by those who don’t like the outcome eg Trump.
- Unbiased information. This is certainly a major problem, which is why I raised it. The internet makes it very difficult to ensure unbiased information from any source; it gives a platform for any opinion no matter how true or false. I don’t see how you insulate against that without very tight control, but then who does the controlling, you?

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: 16/08/2022 08:39:22 »

Fractal is fractal Collin.

So when the uk had a referendum on Brexit, you would consider that fractal?

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Question of the Week / Re: QotW - 22.08.22 - Why is it recommended to drink coca cola after swimming?

« on: 15/08/2022 22:56:50 »

I don't see how drinking Coca-cola could kill pathogens that you ingested.

It doesn’t, but in tests of direct contact vinegar had an effect on E. coli, but cola didn’t.
Best defence is not to swallow water, Also avoid swimming after heavy rainfall, as run-off from the land increases the concentration of E. coli bacteria in the water.

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: 15/08/2022 18:37:10 »

Then I read you wrong Collin.

“Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood”

But the answer remains the same, I can't define what people will want. I know what I want, and would be very wary with any new political party telling me that they want the same as me, a 'digital' democracy in where we directly can vote on issues of interest, without wanting to change its hierarchic  build. aka 'promising to represent mine, and yours, views' in a otherwise unchanging political hierarchy.

But that is something of a pipe dream. A real 'fractal democracy', as it looks today.

As Alan says, you are going to get a lot of different opinions on this. The system he describes is closer to what I would consider to be a fractal democracy. I can imagine a situation where a significant Labour majority might be able to pass such a method as it is already working within the   Party system.
What you have seems to be just referendums on specific issues, selected by the government. Clearly not on every important issue:

As for Sweden entering NATO Collin?
And a referendum was never implemented, by our political hierarchies.

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)s

« on: 14/08/2022 20:10:24 »

And that's my idea of a 'fractal democracy'. Collin wanted me to present step by step how we would introduce it.

No, that’s not what I wanted.
I wanted to know what system you would use, similar to the description Alan has given.
You implied yours was like the referendum system already in use. See:

We use it in Sweden for most anything of value. And I consider it perfectly doable to use it for direct voting too.

So I’m assuming we will soon see it used to decide whether you enter NATO

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: 13/08/2022 18:36:45 »

Well, I've sort of noticed your reservations Collin, but it is still what I call an essay in futility

As long as it is not an essay or a blog in fact, and remains a discussion, that’s ok by the rules we work within.

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: 13/08/2022 17:12:40 »

It's an essay Collin. And the structure is my own. I do think I pointed that out at the first page, ten years, or so, ago.

Just pointing out that you can’t expect people to find stuff you’ve posted earlier, even with a good search engine. It’s unlikely anyone is going back to the beginning of this to try & read through, that’s not how folks use this forum.

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: 13/08/2022 17:08:43 »

Well Origin

A good question, but it's not a blog, it's an essay.

see?

It’s certainly not an essay, that has structure.

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: 13/08/2022 12:47:56 »

It's simple, asymmetric encryption aka Zimmerman and PGP. Then the Internet and your smartphone, laptop etc. and I have been discussing it extensively. I agree in that the essay isn't searchable, which is a loss sometimes, to anyone wanting to find a specific study. Which I also happens to want at times 

I think Alan was meaning the structure rather than the technological implementation; that’s certainly what I was looking for.

It’s not just the searchability, but the way the content is presented. Unlike a website where info can be structured and themes identified, the info here is too higgledy-piggledy. Anyone landing here is unlikely to follow a theme or know whether there is anything worth searching for.

I still consider us to need governments of a sort. Collective mechanisms giving our wishes a focus. But we don't need the hierarchical politic dressings in form of party policies etc. And it needs to become transparent to work.

That’s not as radical as I thought you might be suggesting. Particularly as you seem to be a supporter of bumping off political opponents, but then that does rather solve the problem of hierarchical politic dressings and party policies 

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General Science / Re: What takes more energy walking or skateboarding?

« on: 13/08/2022 12:20:13 »

Thanks for giving us Amazing info.

No, no. Thank you for your pathetic attempt to spam us.
Bye

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Physiology & Medicine / Re: Spammy meds- Enjoy Awesome Sex With Your Sex Life Partner!

« on: 13/08/2022 12:17:10 »

I am experimenting with corned beef and tuna. At least, that's my excuse.

Is that the new surf & turf?
Are you planning a recipe book or website?

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: 12/08/2022 12:30:00 »

Never the less, something fun and inherently clever. Springing from our anthills.

One of many fun things I enjoyed making as a boy

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Physiology & Medicine / Re: Spammy meds- Enjoy Awesome Sex With Your Sex Life Partner!

« on: 12/08/2022 12:23:35 »

Is this just an advertisement?

It is spam.
However, this OP is about to suffer an unrecoverable dysfunction.

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New Theories / Re: An essay in futility, too long to read :)

« on: 11/08/2022 19:49:35 »

Sounds logical enough, except that the problem is that at some point the territories on which we could live will run out. Or do you think it's possible that we'll someday move to other planets?

As Alan says, gdp is not a good measure, it also varies with exchange rate if measured in dollars.

I think moving to other planets is opting out. There certainly aren’t the resources for everyone to go  so only those able to afford it will be able to go.
The real problem is here and needs fixing here. I am inherently distrustful of the ‘single solution’, we need a portfolio of solutions and plan for some to fail or be dead ends.
As Alan says, we also need accurate, well thought through data and models, and sensible solutions. There have already been too many wrong directions and wasted effort trying to avoid tackling the problems.

I also think calling it a game devalues the problem. A game can be restarted when the alien kills you, or you can ask for best of three. We need to make it best of one.

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New Theories / Re: How does Noether's theorem apply to moments of time?

« on: 11/08/2022 17:08:30 »

Not sure you really understand anything (thats why i suppose you could be stupid).
Here, you are in the "New theories forum".
Therefore you cant request, like you do, some reference like you did.
I dont need any reference to claim anything.

Fortunately you do not make the rules here. We expect everyone in New Theories to defend their assertions with experimental evidence or references.

If you continue to insult people you will find your posting rights are withdrawn.

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Just Chat! / MOVED: Can primates with longer necks and hips and shorter torsos take many roles?

« on: 11/08/2022 15:26:04 »

This topic has been moved to Physiology & Medicine.

https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=85312.0