[Lewis Thomson (OP)]

Sue is curious to find the answer to the following question.

"How bad is wi-fi to the environment and should we not be putting mobile phones in our pockets?"

Can you help them?

[Petrochemicals]

Why do you think WiFi, which is used by billions of people daily is dangerous?

[evan_au]

How bad is wi-fi to the environment?

Compared to what?

Rather than flying 1,000km (each way) to visit a customer in the next city, it is far better for the environment (and my time, and the cost to my employer and ultimately the public) for me to do a videoconference over WiFi.

Of course, only the first and last couple of meters of that videoconference are carried over WiFi.
-  I assume that you mean telecommunications in general
- The mobile phone in your pocket only uses WiFi while it is in the house. Once you get outside it switches to a cellular mobile network - similar technology, but on different frequencies (and financed differently).
- There is increasing interest in using satellites in Low Earth Orbit (LEO) to provide data and other communication services to people living in remote areas, plus planes and ships

In general, to send a signal farther, you need more power.
- Sending data 2 - 10 meters to a WiFi hotspot in your house uses very little energy
- Sending the same data 100-1000 meters to a cell tower takes more power
- Sending the same data 400km to an orbiting satellite takes even more power, and a much larger antenna at both ends
- That's why most data today is transmitted most of the way via optical fibers - the refractive index of the fiber redirects the laser beam into the core of the fiber, so that the signal is confined, and it travels farther with less loss and interference than wireless systems.
- Optical fibers are better for many purposes than wireless - except for the last couple of meters to where you are now. You don't want to be tethered to an optical fiber all day!

Electronics requires mining various minerals - but so does making a car or a home. The electronics in your pocket has advanced by a factor of a million in the past 40 years, and is far more environmentally friendly than the same functionality back then (as well as being thousands of times cheaper).

In contrast, cars and houses have improved their environmental credentials a bit - but at best by a factor of 2.

should we not be putting mobile phones in our pockets?

The signal levels put our by mobile phones are milliWatts for WiFi, and closer to a Watt for cellular mobile when you are far from the base station. Satellite communication takes even more.
- But all of this is negligible compared to the intense radiation from the Sun every time you walk outside.

Overall, I suggest that (where possible), rather than commuting an hour each way to work, you work from home (over WiFi), and at lunchtime you take your mobile phone with you, and go outside for a walk in the Sun - that is good for you and the environment.

[Spam3 081122]

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[vhfpmr]

Radio engineers have been working with radio for a century, and so have groups of professional users, if it were harmful they would have showed some signs of increased morbidity & mortality by now, but I'm not aware of any evidence of that. Concerns about safety didn't start to gain any currency until mobile phones put radio into the hands of lay people.

[evan_au]

On the other hands, early radiologists working with X-Rays were not aware of the risks, and suffered from cancer and amputations as a occupational hazard.

Now, the hazards of electromagnetic radiation are recognised, and appropriate limits set for acceptable exposure, so this is not a problem.
- Acceptable limits are also set for WiFi, 5G, microwave ovens and your fitness tracker
- This is much easier for wireless electronics, because their low-energy photons do not break chemical bonds = "non-ionising radiation"
- X-Rays and Ultraviolet (eg from the Sun) do break chemical bonds, and can cause cancer = "ionising radiation"
- In general, visible light is the border: Humans can handle exposure to about 500 Watts/m² of visible light
- Lower frequencies (IR & below) are non-ionising radiation
- Higher frequencies (UV and above) are ionising radiation

[paul cotter]

I worked for several years very close ( ~22metres ) to a 50kw am( 846khz ) transmission tower and never felt any problems. The only precaution needed was not to pick up any piece of bared wire longer than a couple of metres as the initial light contact would result in a burn. We had a Potomac brand signal strength meter that I refused to risk at that close range so the local field strength was never measured.

[evan_au]

signal strength meter that I refused to risk at that close range

You could have taken a series of measurements at longer ranges, and extrapolated...

[paul cotter]

Multiple distant measurements were made( more than were ever needed ) but it never occurred to me to extrapolate as the local field was not a major concern. It was actually a twin tower with 1/8λ separation and the parasitic tower phased to give a meagre 1•4db gain in one direction. Both towers grounded and shunt fed.

[dorothytetcher]

As I know, there are no risks for humans.

But does wifi really hurt the environment? Does it cause a negative impact like car engines?
I don't think so. There are many more dangerous things than that.

[EricNewman]

I just know that we have to turn off the wifi when we go to bed or avoid sleeping in the room where it is located.

[alancalverd]

should we not be putting mobile phones in our pockets?

Thanks to digital compression allowing video calls, you should put your phone in your pocket to avoid walking into lamp posts or the roadway when out and about.  Or switch it off and enjoy real life. It's very sad to see humans staring at a screen whilst their dogs romp about and chase squirrels.

[paul cotter]

Completely agree, Alancalverd. The number of people I see everyday walking around, glued to their screen and totally oblivious to their environment is surely a depressing sight. This virtual living is bound to have repercussions on mental health.

[Spam3 161122]

Research shows that trees, plants, pollinators and wildlife are harmed by wireless radiation.
The use of Wi-fi has increased rapidly in recent years. Through the use of this technology, electronic devices are connected to a computer network wirelessly using radio waves, or radiofrequency (RF) electromagnetic energy (EME), thereby eliminating or reducing the need for network cables. A common example is a laptop connected to the internet using a wi-fi modem at home. Wi-fi access points can also be found in schools and many public areas. People in a wi-fi enabled environment will be exposed to low level RF EME from time to time when using the network on computers and also from the access points. There is some public concern about potential health effects associated with RF EME emissions from wi-fi in homes, schools and other places.

[EricNewman]

should we not be putting mobile phones in our pockets?

Thanks to digital compression allowing video calls, you should put your phone in your pocket to avoid walking into lamp posts or the roadway when out and about.  Or switch it off and enjoy real life. It's very sad to see humans staring at a screen whilst their dogs romp about and chase squirrels.

Yes, I see by my example how I go to college with my friends and they talk to me but I don't hear them because I lose focus on the phone.

[Origin]

Research shows that trees, plants, pollinators and wildlife are harmed by wireless radiation.

Please present that evidence here.

[Origin]

I just know that we have to turn off the wifi when we go to bed or avoid sleeping in the room where it is located.

Why?

[EricNewman]

I just know that we have to turn off the wifi when we go to bed or avoid sleeping in the room where it is located.

Why?

Idk exactly why, but people say it can affect the quality of our sleep.

[dorothytetcher]

Research shows that trees, plants, pollinators and wildlife are harmed by wireless radiation.

Please present that evidence here.

It seems that was spam.

[amadjan]

Don't know about signal towers but WIFI seriously