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If mass had a negative sign, gravity would be ‘up’ instead of ‘down’. Entropy would decrease instead of increasing.
Quote from: Malamute Lover on 06/07/2020 00:16:34If mass had a negative sign, gravity would be ‘up’ instead of ‘down’. Entropy would decrease instead of increasing.I'm skeptical of that. Say that you have a box filled with negative mass particles. The particles all start off in the center of the box clustered together. This cluster is in a state of high gravitational potential energy, and could therefore be used to do useful work if we put some kind of device in it in order to take advantage of it. But as that cluster expands (due to the gravitational repulsion of its components), the particles fill up the box like a gas. Now there is no longer a gravitational potential gradient and the available gravitational potential energy is gone (having been converted into kinetic energy). Now our device can no longer extract as much (or possibly any) useful energy to do work. The expansion of the cluster has caused the entropy in the box to go up.
The negative mass particles flying apart have negative kinetic energy. An expanding cloud of positive mass particles, maybe blown apart by a firecracker, could be a source of positive energy. Extracting and storing their kinetic energy would slow them down. Their kinetic energy would go in a negative direction. However, negative mass energy particles would have negative kinetic energy. Any method of extracting positive kinetic energy from them, making it go in a negative direction (even if this were possible) would speed them up. Extracting negative kinetic energy, heading up toward zero, would require inputting positive energy.
Why is it that the hot coffee gets cooler instead of hotter or just staying the same? With the exception of SLOT, the laws of Physics are time symmetric. Run the time parameter backward and you will reproduce the past conditions. Why is the Second Law of Thermodynamics uni-directional? Because, we are told, of the Arrow of Time. Things develop in one direction in time. Why is that? Because of the Second … um, what was the question?
If mass had a negative sign.... Entropy would decrease instead of increasing.
For entropy to increase, it needs to absorb energy. Since the second law states that the entropy of the universe has to net increase, the energy being absorbed into entropy is being made net unusable to the universe.
The energy is conserved within the entropy, but entropy by having to always net increase renders an ever increasing amount of energy non recyclable and not reusable.
If we have a mother cell, splitting into two daughter cells, the system entropy has increased; more complex state. This more complex state has absorbed some energy into the higher entropy state, which now cannot be easily reused. The two daughter cells cannot go backwards unless we add extra energy beyond what was needed to go forward.
Energy conservation applies, however the energy that goes into entropy is stuck in limbo, and is no longer a part of the useable energy of the universe; as we go forward in time. Entropy can be reversed. We can freeze and thaw water and ice. But this requires we add some extra energy to make up for the loss due to the original entropy increase. I tend to believe the limbo energy, within universal entropy, is what we call dark energy. However, I think we are reversing cause and effect, since most appear to assume only reversible energy, but not the existence of energy, that results in complexity, being stuck in limbo.
If the universe reached a state of infinite entropy, there would be no useable energy in the universe. To an outsider, our universe would appear to have zero energy. However, the blue print of creation; all the entropy states facades, would still theoretically, exist due to energy conservation. The ancients would call this the alpha and the omega.
If you were God, or could play the role of God in the movies, to form a new universe from the zero energy void, you would need to figure out a way to lower entropy to release its hidden energy. One would have to brood over the blue print, in the cold darkness, until light appear from the void. I use the term blue print because entropy is a state variable, meaning for a given state of matter, the entropy is a fixed value that is alway the same. Water at 25C and one atmosphere has a fixed entropy value that is used as a standard. The facade of matter; states, is like a blue print.
Quote from: malamute loverIf mass had a negative sign.... Entropy would decrease instead of increasing.The problem is that mass has a corresponding energy, and even if the gravitational mass were negative, the equivalent energy would still be positive.Whether antimatter has a different gravitational attraction than "normal" matter has still not been resolved.- This is the subject of ongoing experiments at CERN (eg ALPHA)See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_interaction_of_antimatterLooking to the future, entropy would still increase even with repulsive mass, because the statistical distribution of matter would become more uniform in an (accelerating) expanding universe.Peering into the past, there is one event that may have caused more differentiation on our universe, and that is the hypothetical splitting of the 4 fundamental forces, as posited by string theory (and others). See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Unified_Theory
SLOT actually says that the overall entropy of an isolated system tends to increase over time. There is no physical reason why the combination of forces might not result in all the air molecules in a room to simultaneously be in the lower half of the room, resulting in a temperature increase. It is just outrageously improbable unless some special circumstances were invoked. (Freezing all the air and having it settle to the floor would be a good start.)
Quote from: Malamute Lover on 10/07/2020 00:52:06SLOT actually says that the overall entropy of an isolated system tends to increase over time. There is no physical reason why the combination of forces might not result in all the air molecules in a room to simultaneously be in the lower half of the room, resulting in a temperature increase. It is just outrageously improbable unless some special circumstances were invoked. (Freezing all the air and having it settle to the floor would be a good start.)This is true, but since there is no such thing as perpetual motion, this very action will net increase entropy, even though we have reversed entropy somewhere else. There is always a net loss of useable energy, via the second law, from the universe.
Matter or antimatter both stem from and contain energy, while gravity and anti-gravity are both part of energy conservation with neither having full access to the energy that is lost to entropy. When gravity acts entropy can reverse but they extra energy came from the potential energy within the gravitational potential. As gravity gets stronger due to less size, work cause heat energy, which then starts to increase entropy again to form other states of matter.
The term entropy was originally coined by engineers who were developing the first steam engines. They would measure the energy into and the work and energy out of their engines, and noticed that they could not close the energy balance. There was missing energy. This loss of energy was measurable and repeatable, Entropy was mathematically defined as the difference. The statistical explanation for the how and why of entropy came later, when statistics came into vogue. It does not explain the missing energy. Missing energy loads the dice.
In terms of modern chemistry, entropy is considered a state variable, meaning for any given state of matter, such as a one liter of water at 25C and 1 atmosphere, it has a specific amount of entropy. This is repeatable and can be achieved by any path to the final state.
The relationship between any given state; specific set of conditions for matter, and the fixed amount of entropy, makes entropy connected to the facades or blue prints of materials. Whether it be matter or antimatter, both are types of facade, and each defines a given amount of entropy, along with other forms of internal energy; enthalpy.
Our universe is mostly matter with a minor amount of antimatter. There is a time asymmetry here also. We currently assume this is based on randomness; roll the dice. Or we might assume this is due to each state having different amounts of entropy; energy in limbo. Both can have the same free energy; equal and opposite, but differences in entropy facade would create differences in enthalpy so free energy is the same. Antimatter appears to contain more enthalpy, to make it more active in the world of available energy. Matter does better in the world of unavailable energy and facades.
An interesting application of entropy is the living state. There is no other state in the universe with as many layers of facade, at all levels. Life is high in entropy and full of limbo energy that can be reverse as needed, since we constantly eat and metabolize to create the extra energy needed to satisfy the second law, while being able to reverse states.
The foundation of the entropy of life is within water and hydrogen bonding. The hydrogen bond has both polar and covalent bonding character. A hydrogen bond can form and then can go both ways with only a minimal change in free energy. The polar state has higher measurable entropy while the covalent state has lower entropy. Water and hydrogen bonds can switch back and forth since there is available thermal and metabolic energy, to make up the difference imposed by the second law.
The DNA, also uses hydrogen bonding as part of its template activity. The second law will drive evolution on the template, by altering polar and covalent patterns in previous states. Higher entropy means a more complex facade and more limbo energy. Evolution is not random but is based on the second law. Life will not spontaneous; reform the dinosaurs. Humans may do this in the lab, but it will have a large energy cost to recreate a lower entropy state.
While water is important to life because if its ability to dissolve, suspend and transport, the real hero is carbon. It’s enormous capability for making compounds, including extremely large and complex ones, and the large energy potentials that these compounds can contain is what makes complicated life forms possible. A rarely appreciated characteristic of carbon is that the byproduct of energy producing reactions (carbon dioxide) is a gas, allowing ready disposal. By contrast, carbon’s only competitor – silicon – has less compound forming capability, less energy potentials and its byproduct, silicon dioxide, is an inconvenient solid.
Experiments were done where cells were dehydrated and then the water was replaced by a wide range of other solvents, to see what would happen to the organic compounds of life. This was connected to the theory life can appear in other solvents.The results were, nothing worked properly, in any other solvent, down to individual enzymes. The carbon compounds became lifeless and lacked useful function without water. Wheh water was added everything worked and life appeared. What is often attributed in life, to statistics, is actually logically explained by the co-partnership with water. Life, as we know it, evolved in water. Water was/is the micro environment for natural selection at the nanoscale from day one. If we placed life in the Arctic region or the Amazon Jungles, each environment will set parameters that life will need to meet. Life will need to stay warm in the Arctic and say cool in the Amazon; environmental pressures that have a predetermine result. Water had potential needs and life has to conform. The DNA was selected by the water environment. DNA would not have been selected in any other solvent. If life had evolved in alcohols or any other solvent, which there is no proof it can, other organic or silicon chemicals would need to selected, since the experiments shows that the organic chemicals selected by water, for life, do not work in these solvents.
Entropy is connected to free energy by the equation G=H-TS, where G is the Gibbs free energy, H is enthalpy, T is temperature and S is entropy. The second laws says that the S of the universe has to increase. The increase in S lowers the free energy G due to the minus sign in the equation. As universal entropy net increases, to obey the second law, the free energy of the universe gets less and less. There is less net free energy, that is usable to the universe, as time moves forward.
The universe was originally very hot so the T term or temperature was extreme. The early universe was making free energy unusable at a very high rate. Stars and fusion and extreme heat continue this tradition. There is less universal free energy, in play today, than there was yesterday.
What we call time, moves in the direction of diminishing useable free energy. Entropy and time share the feature of moving in one net direction; forward. Entropy has to increase and time has to move forward. The net loss of useable energy creates a moving target in time.
What has screwed up science, are the clocks that we use to measure time. Clocks cycle which is not how time behaves. This is how energy and waves behave, but not time. Clocks are the wrong analogy for time since they model time as a waves even though time only moves in one direction.This is like using a thermometer to measure length. It can be done with some ingenuity; expansivity, However, this will perpetuate a practical misconception that time is somehow connected to energy waves. Free energy is TS and S does not cycle. Clocks do a better measuring TS, since TS is a measure of energy.
Time is not energy waves. It is a dimension along which development occurs. I am not familiar with any model that treats time as waves.
Solids can be placed under pressure and tension but not both at the same time and achieve a steady state.
Quote from: Malamute Lover on 11/07/2020 23:36:36Time is not energy waves. It is a dimension along which development occurs. I am not familiar with any model that treats time as waves. There is a difference between the propagation of time, and the clocks we use to measure time. My clock will repeat the same hours each day, even though time moves in one direction to the future and never repeats itself. Time is 1-D but clock actually model a type of wave phenomena, where the period of the wave is either 24 or 12 hours. Clock time or rather wave time is used throughput physics and science to approximate a 1-D phenomena that is linear and does not repeat. Time is not like energy, It is not 2-D like a wave, but the clock represents it as such, whether consciously or unconsciously bu long standing traditions. This is why if we are stuck with clocks which time represent time by a wave, the TS term in the free enemy equation i what we are expressing, since that term is a measure of energy. Entropy is 1-D, just like clock time, the TS makes it 2-D like the clock.
Entropy is reversible, but since perpetual motion does not exist, we will need to add more energy, for the local reversal of entropy, than was needed for the forward acton. This is because we need to compensate for the limbo energy that was part of the energy balance for the forward action.. We need to restore the limbo energy to get back to where we began.I have tried to use the term net energy lost to entropy since some entropy can reverse, but the net affect is ever increasing entropy within the universe, with more and more limbo energy being added. This is how time is related entropy, with both being 1-D.
An example of an entropy clock would be the dead fish clock. We buy a fresh dead fish from the fish market and place it on the kitchen counter in its time keeper case. The unit of time is when the dead fish starts to stink. When the clock starts , entropy will taken over and we cannot un-stink the fish due to the second law. Like time it moves only in one direction. Like in relativity, this clock;s time unit is dependent on reference. The hotter it is in the kitchen, the faster the unit of time will lapse; spoil faster, and the cooler it is the slower time will lapse relative to a regular wave clock. This is connected to the TS variable, where temperate T will increase the loss of free energy, for any fixed amount of entropy.
Both time and entropy might also be expressed in 3-D, as a spiral moving up a z-axis. From above where the z-axis is not seen, we see a clock on an (x.y) plan. The clock appears to return to 12 noon each day. However, if we also see the z-axis, but it is also moving up the z-axis, so this new 12 noon has more limbo energy. We as humans perceive time through changes of state, with increasing limbo energy assuring new changes, since what can reverse becomes more and more limited with time.
"Why is the Second Law of Thermodynamics (SLOT) time asymmetric? "Because the Universe is time asymmetric. It had a beginning, and will have some sort of "end".
Why is it that the hot coffee gets cooler instead of hotter or just staying the same?
The laws of physics are time symmetric