Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Plant Sciences, Zoology & Evolution => Topic started by: Petrochemicals on 04/08/2023 00:01:08
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Or are trees sentient. Life became, entities that photosynthesise, animals also are, so are they from the same genesis?
I can imagine this question will annoy vegans.
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Animals and plants do share a common ancestor, yes. A lot of the same genes are present in both lineages. I don't know why vegans would be bothered by that fact. Being related to animals wouldn't make them conscious.
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If only Veganz would know what it Truly means to have 2 Bananas in one go...
They'd almost be choked by Guilt!
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If scientists believe life could evolve on other worlds, why must it only evolve once here, perhaps new life is being created right now! Maybe the different animal varieties all had independant origins?
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If scientists believe life could evolve on other worlds, why must it only evolve once here,
It's certainly possible that life arose more than once on Earth, but only one lineage seems to have survived.
perhaps new life is being created right now!
That's not very likely, given that the conditions on Earth now are very different than on early Earth. There's also the issue of microbes scavenging any such organic chemicals and thus keeping them from developing further.
Maybe the different animal varieties all had independant origins?
Given genetics and the fossil record, that is very unlikely.
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Animals and plants do share a common ancestor, yes. A lot of the same genes are present in both lineages. I don't know why vegans would be bothered by that fact. Being related to animals wouldn't make them conscious.
So says you, you brute!
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-whispering-trees-180968084/
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Animals and plants do share a common ancestor, yes. A lot of the same genes are present in both lineages. I don't know why vegans would be bothered by that fact. Being related to animals wouldn't make them conscious.
So says you, you brute!
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-whispering-trees-180968084/
Communication doesn't make something conscious. Even individual cells communicate with each other.
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Animals and plants do share a common ancestor, yes. A lot of the same genes are present in both lineages. I don't know why vegans would be bothered by that fact. Being related to animals wouldn't make them conscious.
So says you, you brute!
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-whispering-trees-180968084/
Communication doesn't make something conscious. Even individual cells communicate with each other.
Again, this is your view, where do you put the line of consciousness.
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Anyone care to define consciousness?
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Again, this is your view
I don't think so. I don't know of any definitions of consciousness that say communication automatically equates to consciousness. If it did, then even old telegraphs are conscious.
where do you put the line of consciousness.
The presence of qualia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia
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Circular definition - according to Wikipedia, qualia are identified by conscious experiences!
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Circular definition - according to Wikipedia, qualia are identified by conscious experiences!
I consider it more that qualia are conscious experiences.
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Which makes the definition of consciousness not merely circular but a disappearing spiral.
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Which makes the definition of consciousness not merely circular but a disappearing spiral.
Do you mean there has to be a self divined cut off point where you just have to bolt gun it through the head and barbecue it for dinner?
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Animals are incapable of synthesising several vital chemicals from inorganic ingredients, so every animal has to eat something that has lived - either a plant (which does the primary synthesis) or another animal. Thanks to the invention of cooking, humans have a very broad spectrum of edibles but find it necessary (and aesthetically desirable) to kill most of our prey before cooking it. The only exceptions seem to be shellfish and insects, either eaten alive or killed by cooking.
We know that plants respond to all sorts of stimuli and insult, and the octopus definitely has animal intelligence but no central nervous system, so it's probably impossible to distinguish usefully between consciousness and life in general. The vegetarian argument has scientific merit in terms of maximally efficient agriculture, but it's difficult to support veganism on any rational grounds.
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One of the box jellfish has eight eyes but no brain. How can it see?
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One of the box jellfish has eight eyes but no brain. How can it see?
Perhaps it doesn't (in the sense that a human sees, anyway). Perhaps it's just a simple light detection system that is paired with a purely reflex-driven nervous system. I haven't looked it up, so I could be wrong.
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Not my area of expertise ( if I have any!! ) but I would reckon the eyes function in local reflexes. An odd creature and not one to contact having a swim. I guess Evan_au would know a lot more about these.
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Interesting Topic!
Abiogenesis vs Panspermia.
Who knows what lurks in the deepest darkest Oceans, or 100 miles under the Earth.
ps - can dna & rna be classified as Seeds of Life?
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The "RNA world theory" does indeed propose RNA as a precursor to modern life.
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Anyone care to define consciousness?
I did try to define it in my thread about universal terminal goal.
Feel free to make a comment.
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Nicely presented, but full of holes,my friend! For example "reducing neurons" does flip a binary "some" to "none" when you remove the last one; you talk about "accurate" representations in memory but we know that organic memory is not accurate; requirement to make changes in response to stimuli - so a brain without arms is not conscious, but it's pretty clear that an octopus (arms without a brain) is.....and so forth.
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Nicely presented, but full of holes,my friend! For example "reducing neurons" does flip a binary "some" to "none" when you remove the last one; you talk about "accurate" representations in memory but we know that organic memory is not accurate;
Organic memory is not accurate due to noise and interference. It's not precise due to limited capacity.
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so a brain without arms is not conscious,
Some people have no arms since birth. Some have legs, but some others don't. You shouldn't assume that they are not conscious.