[yor_on]

Hierarchies doesn't have a nation, neither does hierarchical thinking and actions. We grow up under it and we die under it.

[yor_on]

And nobody wants a 'fractal democracy'

Am I right?

[yor_on]

If it makes us a failed species?

Depends. Today it does.

[yor_on]

I get this funny feeling that Elon Musk impulsiveness, and actually humanity, will make him become a sort of fall guy of this war.

[yor_on]

Because no matter what I think of Mars, or everyone owning a Tesla, I too is tired of this war, and feel a sort of sympathy for all those 'collateral damages' it produces. And I won't blame it solely on Russia, there are two sides to it.

[yor_on]

And then we have the pattern it produce today. Our worst case scenario played out. If I didn't give us much of a chance ten years ago I give us even less today.

[paul cotter]

"And I won't blame it solely on Russia, there are two sides to it". Yes, there are two sides to every dispute but that is no excuse to start the obscenity of war. Is all this thread a treatise on futility or negativity?. The failings and foibles of human nature are well known and various crises have dogged humanity in the past and will continue to do so in the future, utopia always being a distant dream.

[alancalverd]

One might express it as Mr Putin being a 'product' of his country

No, he is the product of a corrupt electoral system. But what matters isn't how he got there, but what he does when he's there, and that is pure Machiavellian evil.

[yor_on]

You need to read the whole essay Paul. It's about human behaviors. And a game of inequality.

[yor_on]

You can read this, a nuanced version, westernized. What Russia thinks about it should be obvious by now. Even for the most hard boiled 'patriots'.

https://www.dw.com/en/nato-why-russia-has-a-problem-with-its-eastward-expansion/a-60891681

[yor_on]

In a conventional war Russia might change, and with it its hierarchies, just as Russia wants with Ukraine. With a nuclear war none of it is possible.

[yor_on]

with peace it would be, slowly, but peace doesn't fit, does it?

[yor_on]

hate fits, peace doesn't.

[yor_on]

And it's not about Ukraine. It's about history.

[yor_on]

How come it's so hard for us to admit it?

[yor_on]

And the end result of it all should be this. Dead man walking.

Our own stupidity will kill us. Doesn't matter what 'ideology' or 'flag' you wave for that one.

[yor_on]

One can't lock oneself up on this war. To me it's just a continuance of a worst case scenario. And you need to include resource wars, climate wars, and then those different ideals, values and beliefs we cherish. That it might end in a nuclear war today doesn't mean that continuing will make it go away.

[yor_on]

We're a curios inventive species, hierarchical to a fault. Today we're opening Pandora's box, just to see what it brings us.

[Colin2B]

"And I won't blame it solely on Russia, there are two sides to it". Yes, there are two sides to every dispute but that is no excuse to start the obscenity of war.

Like you I have been raised, or learnt, that there are two sides to every story. With that comes a distrust of those who say a problem is black or white, no grey. I also distrust marketeers, politicians, propagandists, and all those with a soundclip solution.

You need to read the whole essay Paul. It's about human behaviors. And a game of inequality.

No point, it’s a confused mismash of fact, some of which is now out of date,  and questionable opinion plus some swallowing of propaganda.

You can read this, a nuanced version, westernized. What Russia thinks about it should be obvious by now. Even for the most hard boiled 'patriots'.

It’s nothing to do with patriotism or flag waving. I feel no patriotism for Ukraine, just a deep sadness that a people who want to determine their own future, do away with soviet era corruption, and choose what sources of information they receive, and more, should be subjected to a most horrendous attack and mistreatment. That goes far, far beyond a reasonable response and it is hard to understand why anyone would want to defend that attack.
Interesting to note that terms like nuanced, westernised and hard boiled patriots, could come straight from a propaganda writer trying to put negative spin on an alternative viewpoint.
   

[alancalverd]

How come it's so hard for us to admit it?

Because deep down, we all know that history is bunk. We can learn from what happened yesterday (there being no other source of knowledge) but what matters is what we are going to do tomorrow. And there's the difference between politicians and humans. Some slime in anthropic form makes its living by inciting others to right historic wrongs or imagined injustices by invading territory and killing people. Decent humans make a living by collaborating and trading with people.