Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: neilep on 14/11/2023 14:34:14
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Have there been any actual real changes for the positive in someone's health due to the Placebo effect ?
If yes, then can the belief in getting better be achieved without taking a false treatment ?
or....if not...why do some people report that they ' feel' better but tests show no physical improvement ?
How Does The Placebo Effect Work ?
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If yes, then can the belief in getting better be achieved without taking a false treatment ?
It takes actual belief, something some of us cannot just conjure at will.
I know others that are very adept at making up an alternate reality, and then actually believing it. I have a harder time doing it.
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The mind does have considerable control over your body, and how you feel about your body (eg pain sensitivity).
- So telling your mind that someone you trust has prescribed this medication will probably make you feel better, even if it does nothing for an underlying biological problem.
- We saw this during the COVID pandemic, where a significant fraction of the US population believed that Ivermectin had protected them from COVID and/or cured them - because Donald Trump told them (with no clinical evidence at all, initially).
That's why the gold standard for clinical trials is to test a proposed medication/treatment against an identical-looking placebo.
- That tells you (and anyone funding your health) that paying for this medication is better than doing nothing (for free).
- Often, the placebo effect is bigger than the effect of the proposed medication! But the small effect of the medication is visible because you can "subtract out" the placebo effect.
- However, large studies have shown that Ivermectin is no better than placebo at treating COVID (with the possible exception of trials in some 2/3 world countries, where the proven de-worming effect of Ivermectin may have reduced the known immune-suppressing effects of parasitic worms, allowing a more robust immune response to COVID).
I have heard of a 2010 study that demonstrated that the placebo effect really makes people feel better, even if they know they are taking an inert substance!.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Mechanisms
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I think there is something to it as when you treat someone placebo wise without knowing you lesson their own stress about being sick which can drastically change how your body responds to fighting off disease etc.. Stressing can multiply and cause disease.. so by eliminating some stress from a placebo could help ease the fight or enhance the healing don't you think? Kinda in the same way adding stress can make things worse!
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It takes actual belief, something some of us cannot just conjure at will.
Placebos work even when the patient knows they're a placebo.
https://www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k3889
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If yes, then can the belief in getting better be achieved without taking a false treatment ?
It takes actual belief, something some of us cannot just conjure at will.
I know others that are very adept at making up an alternate reality, and then actually believing it. I have a harder time doing it.
Thank ewe Halcy. I too would find it quite difficult to conjure up the mind set of feeling better knowing that it would be due to specifically a psychosomatic reaction.
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The mind does have considerable control over your body, and how you feel about your body (eg pain sensitivity).
- So telling your mind that someone you trust has prescribed this medication will probably make you feel better, even if it does nothing for an underlying biological problem.
- We saw this during the COVID pandemic, where a significant fraction of the US population believed that Ivermectin had protected them from COVID and/or cured them - because Donald Trump told them (with no clinical evidence at all, initially).
That's why the gold standard for clinical trials is to test a proposed medication/treatment against an identical-looking placebo.
- That tells you (and anyone funding your health) that paying for this medication is better than doing nothing (for free).
- Often, the placebo effect is bigger than the effect of the proposed medication! But the small effect of the medication is visible because you can "subtract out" the placebo effect.
- However, large studies have shown that Ivermectin is no better than placebo at treating COVID (with the possible exception of trials in some 2/3 world countries, where the proven de-worming effect of Ivermectin may have reduced the known immune-suppressing effects of parasitic worms, allowing a more robust immune response to COVID).
I have heard of a 2010 study that demonstrated that the placebo effect really makes people feel better, even if they know they are taking an inert substance!.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#Mechanisms
Thank ewe evan_au. I appreciate your comment and information.
I wonder if people who claim they feel better may be also easily hypnotisable ?
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I think there is something to it as when you treat someone placebo wise without knowing you lesson their own stress about being sick which can drastically change how your body responds to fighting off disease etc.. Stressing can multiply and cause disease.. so by eliminating some stress from a placebo could help ease the fight or enhance the healing don't you think? Kinda in the same way adding stress can make things worse!
Thank ewe Kareny Mam,
I completely agree with the stress related issues and know that many suffer from stomach ulcers where stress has certainly been a factor. So, I can also accept the a stress free environment could facilitate the body to heal.
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The placebo may have a curative effect, but the placebo group will also contain a number of subjects who would have recovered with no intervention. This is quite difficult to determine as merely recruiting someone into a trial, even if you gave them no further attention beyond writing down their name, could be considered an intervention!
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I think there is something to it as when you treat someone placebo wise without knowing you lesson their own stress about being sick which can drastically change how your body responds to fighting off disease etc.. Stressing can multiply and cause disease.. so by eliminating some stress from a placebo could help ease the fight or enhance the healing don't you think? Kinda in the same way adding stress can make things worse!
Thank ewe Kareny Mam,
I completely agree with the stress related issues and know that many suffer from stomach ulcers where stress has certainly been a factor. So, I can also accept the a stress free environment could facilitate the body to heal.
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Yes, and I meant that perhaps, them thinking they were taking a pill to help them, may relieve their stress about their symptoms or illnesses... Thus making them feel better... but yes I agree with you too.