Naked Science Forum
General Discussion & Feedback => Just Chat! => Topic started by: Senseless on 25/08/2004 22:00:53
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GOd is all powerful, even if you believe it hypothetically. Thus, to poke holes in a theory based on human standards when God even hypothetically is the creator of human standards is silly. {( and there are soooo many credible sourced to debunk the silly arguments too)
THe truth is all of you who believe that focus on the flood because you know if u were alive then, you would be sent to hell.
Greg Badalian
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Foolish infidel... i'm a muslim but even our worthy religion does not spout such condemnations against its fellow men...
I'll say one thing... The Muslim faith gets a hard time for the small group of extremists like me... you seem like a fellow extremist? fancy meeting for a cuppa?
catch me if you can!
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Your an athiest it seems, trying to be funny.
God is extreme, im not extreme, i love my enemies. God is estreme because he can be, HE is God, im not extreme
Greg Badalian
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I am not what you refer as an atheist. I believe in my own God. I don't like being accused of being fictitious as though i don't exist. I have been on this forum for a considerable time!
It does however anger me and i even find it laughable when the people always argue about religion on a science site. Such foolish infidelous behaviour bores me...
Let us discuss something current and interesting. I am concerned about global warming. I have noticed the snow has thinned outside my cave considerably faster over the past few years. Is this just a short term problem or are all the ice caps going to melt meaning you must all build your own arks?
catch me if you can!
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Bin,
Tell us what kind of dialysis you're doing on the run. I'm curious to know what kind of electricity they have in your caves, or is it a primitive peritoneal dialysis?
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I didnt know Bin Laden had kidney problems... you learn something new every day...
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I'll never understand why Bible-thumpers try to pick fights with scientists. Our knowledge is based on experiment, discovery, and logic. We base our beliefs off of things we observe and we continue to scrutinize even things that we're pretty confident in. Religion, however, is based entirely in stories handed down from the people that created it thousands of years ago. It gains followers through fear of the unknown and threat of punishment. (believe in Jebus or you burn in hell forever! Nice compassionate God ya got there) It's teachings are rarely, if ever, subject to scutiny or change. Any good evidence or argument against religion is always cast off as the sly words of the Devil. (way to cover all of your bases, but you're still left with blind faith)
Just look at our pal Bin Laden if you want a nice example of what blind faith in your religion can result in. Sure, Christianity isn't all about slaying the infidels anymore, but take a good hard look at yourselves and the hate you bring against gays, Jews, and people of other faiths.
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The physicist Leo Szilard once announced to his friend Hans Bethe that he was thinking of keeping a diary: " I don't intend to publish. I am merely going to record the facts for the information of God."
" Don't you think God knows the facts ? " Berthe asked,
"yes ", said Szilard, "He knows the facts, but he does not know this version of the facts"
Hans Christian Von Baeyer, Taming the Atom
Don't know why I wrote that, thought it seemed appropriate.
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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hey Bin one problem your english is remarkable, and if you say you learned it who was your teacher because you use UK english not USA english which would be most available to a Pakistani and certanily not Pakistan-english. have fun in your caves bcz you seem backed into a corner
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quote:
Originally posted by Senseless
GOd is all powerful, even if you believe it hypothetically. Thus, to poke holes in a theory based on human standards when God even hypothetically is the creator of human standards is silly. {( and there are soooo many credible sourced to debunk the silly arguments too)
THe truth is all of you who believe that focus on the flood because you know if u were alive then, you would be sent to hell.
Greg Badalian
Our standards as humans are fallen standards and are not God's. The flood was extreme but did good, certainly more good than the invasions of either Afganistan or in particular Iraq.
If you hold to the story of Genesis then you believe a description of an evil world of warlords, grossly unjust rapes, and all sorts of rebellion. Even cross species rape by dark angels or aliens with the world's finest women. Creating the giant warlord Nephilim race. It is better for us to be descended from Noah than the violent rebels that were killed instead. There are other strong reasons for why this is better. We hold to a good God and other ideas are worn away with thought. Because God is good and when we see order in His word and not just extremity and because Jesus believed it and because Peter, Paul and John turned Rome and Greece upside down with all their civil rationality, we hold to their words.
Titanscape
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Both religion and science have the same thing in common FAITH.
I just have more faith in the scientific principle, than dogma!
We can change our believe systems if better evidence comes along, and we can be wrong, but that is not a problem it is a oppotunity.
Was not Bin Laden educated in the UK, but then I could be wrong!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandwalker
Both religion and science have the same thing in common FAITH.
I wouldn't really call belief in science "faith." Faith implies beliefs without evidence. Even the most theoretical avenues of science have some sort of mathematical or experimental evidence to back them up. I defy anyone to empirically support the truth of existing theology.
If you are willing to change your beliefs in the face of new evidence, (as scientists are) then you're not faithful, you're logical.
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But who did the experiment and supplied the reasoning!
We have 'faith' in the scientist and his results!
We have 'faith' that the paradigm of logic will supply a theory that is correct/true.
All scientific theories are an abstraction, they describe reality they are not the reality. We have faith that they describe reality correctly, but as quantum mechanics, relativity and newtonian mechanics shows they are only as good as the observer and his observations and ideas.
Don't get me wrong, I beleive science provides answers that work, but we accept most of these scientific ideas as reality without question or personal experience that in itself is an act of faith.
Those writing the theories are the high priests (theologians) of science in whom we place our trust.
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Yes, but they are open to criticism, even from you. If you can show that what they say is not always true, then you may have opened the door to a new understanding. Then other scientists, some of them are religious people, will go through that door and find new truths. It is the open forum for the exchange of ideas that separates science from dogma.
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How many flame topics are there about religion v' science, cant we have a separate forum for it...
Take this prime example:
quote:
GOd is all powerful, even if you believe it hypothetically. Thus, to poke holes in a theory based on human standards when God even hypothetically is the creator of human standards is silly. {( and there are soooo many credible sourced to debunk the silly arguments too)
THe truth is all of you who believe that focus on the flood because you know if u were alive then, you would be sent to hell.
Greg Badalian
Has no relevance to "General Science" has poor capitalisation and spelling (which I don't mind since this is an international place) and is just plane argumentative.
wOw the world spins?
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Matt...I've been thinking EXACTLY the same thing...I was thinking about creating a thread called ' Thread for all religous stuff only' or ' for all you religous people ,here's your thread ' or 'Please put all your religous stuff here '...but you know what ?...it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference....so I just didn't bother
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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You can reproduce from documentation a described experiment. There does not exist a single accepted scientific theory that has not been repeated experimentally by independent parties. "Miracles" and "religious epiphanies" or whatever else religious fundies use to justify their beliefs cannot be reproduced.
Stop trying to compare belief in science to belief in religion. They aren't even close.
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Hey guys, even religious extremists should be allowed their say (we all need a good laugh now and then).
I'm all for science, and in agreement with gsmollin on this topic, and believe that religion is for those who can not accept that the unknown is just that 'unknown', like UFO being replaced with Flying Saucer.
I suppose I'm a rational existentialist (Please check spelling), but then I might be delusional on that! (labels, labels).
But remember that any proof is only as good as the axioms it starts off with!.
And Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem wich states that 'the consistency of a deductive system cannot be established using the system itself'!
Check out these sites.
http://plus.maths.org/issue7/features/proof1/
http://pass.maths.org.uk/issue9/features/proof3/index.html
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I'm not saying fundies shouldn't be allowed to speak their minds...it's just that what they speak is often insulting and offensive to those who are not of a like mind. The whole "You're going to burn in hell, sinner" thing pisses me right off. It's viral. It converts people through fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Ever hear of Pascal's Wager? It's basically about being a Christian "just in case."
I'm all for free speech, but you damn well better be able to handle the consequences when your speech invokes anger or outrage in your audience. You play with YOUR imaginary friends and I'll play with mine and we'll all be happy.
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.....the very method of fundies patronising way of preaching manifests itself in such negative consequences , that it is fuel for so much disdain...they are inflexible and unyielding in purpose, principle, or temper.....and for me it is this profound state of mind that they project that really pisses me off........yes, speak freely but they should allow others to debate without the pious belittling 'higher than thou' reubuttal attitude and the inability to compromise on thought......something which for some is beyond comprehension .
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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why people believe in me is, well, beyond me. Amen.
I am GOD..You are Not..I don't exist !!
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My 1 cent.. and you may want a refund..
Believe whatever you want but don't step up to people and tell them, "you have issues because I am right and you are wrong."
You know, I don't care if my neighbor worships 20 gods or none at all as long as they don't judge me on what I feel is the right path to the end of me.
NASA keeps pissing me off with their complete lack of skills because of poor hiring practices while Google puts the brighter minds into cubicles. Do bitch about? no..
I moved into an appartment once and my new niehbor came over to say hello and to bring a pie. She asked me what church I went to so I told her I didn't go. Well I'll be damned if she didn't walk away from my door, food in hand as she whispered LOAD enough for me to hear, "why do we always get the monkey lovers out here." This is the same woman who called her black cat Nigger.
monkey hit wall.. wall real, monkey real.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ylide
Stop trying to compare belief in science to belief in religion. They aren't even close.
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Actually Evolution is considered a religion. It's based on faith and not facts but there it is, in even the most basic school books. I think the theory holds up sometimes, but I've never seen a fossil record of a Dog making a non-Dog.
So really Science and Religion are like sister and brother..
1) Jesus was a healer, not some powerful god. He spoke his mind and poof! Jesus was a humanitarian.
2) Science flip flops all the time, even Hawking is pushing facts then hanging his head in shame.
3) almost all Science area's need a UFT to hold up as fact. Religion is wrong, but at least they got their bible. Yellow and Blue make green is cool, but I don't really care.
4) So much has been done wrong in the name of Christianity that anyone who can pick up a history book should never step into a church.
5) Church's offer Daycare for a reason, no one should be allowed into a church until they are 18. I'm so tired of seeing these kids that say, "well, if it's wrong I'm not going to hell so I go." It's like they were never told Santa Clause wasn't real.
.
monkey hit wall.. wall real, monkey real.
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Sinners are going to Hell, (not necessarily) but it is like saying there is a dimension you can't see in which there is a war being waged like WW2 you are hated by one side and loved by the other. One or the other will take you, like Nazis and Allies, Japs or Aussies as if you were in Singapore... You can't see it but the papers tell you it is there.
It is a struggle but more so a matter of legalism, for as a Christian I say that Jesus won on the cross the whole battle and Paul calls our fight a good fight. It is won. If you accept Christ your His your saved, He enforces the right, the others are weak and can only make legal pionts.
Titanscape
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How about adding a "Science discussion forum" to this website?
you can't crack me I'm a rubber duck!
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Evolution is not a religion. It is based on facts. It has absolutely nothing to do with a Dog making a Not-dog, and to repeat this sort of nonsense simply gives ammunition to the christian fascists who are tryng to replace science with know-nothingism and make the bible and it's authoritarian, question nothing values the rule of the land.
Elastic
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Just in case any of you have NOT voted, I'd thought I'd post this link to the 'God' opinion poll http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=903&SearchTerms=do,you,believe,in,GOD
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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quote:
Originally posted by Elastic
Evolution is not a religion. It is based on facts. It has absolutely nothing to do with a Dog making a Not-dog, and to repeat this sort of nonsense simply gives ammunition to the christian fascists who are tryng to replace science with know-nothingism and make the bible and it's authoritarian
I have no religion, I have personal -theory- about what happens when people pass.
Please, please, PLEASE post to one site that proves evolution with facts I can visit and study.. please! Send me to the truth.. and no Religion HAS no, "ammunition" it is all faith on old texts.
I can understand people following their fathers but I'm not your father's son.
monkey hit wall.. wall real, monkey real.
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quote:
Originally posted by Raedon
quote:
Originally posted by Elastic
Evolution is not a religion. It is based on facts. It has absolutely nothing to do with a Dog making a Not-dog, and to repeat this sort of nonsense simply gives ammunition to the christian fascists who are tryng to replace science with know-nothingism and make the bible and it's authoritarian
I have no religion, I have personal -theory- about what happens when people pass.
Please, please, PLEASE post to one site that proves evolution with facts I can visit and study.. please! Send me to the truth.. and no Religion HAS no, "ammunition" it is all faith on old texts.
I can understand people following their fathers but I'm not your father's son.
monkey hit wall.. wall real, monkey real.
so.....what's your theory ?
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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quote:
Originally posted by neilep
so.....what's your theory ?
Well, first off.. it is my own so it's not up for debate.
It also has changed over the last five years and probably will until I die.
I think that we are all novelty of one stream of consciousness. For some reason this consciousness is schizophrenic and we are the result and in a sense we are all "soulmates."
At death we loose ego (I will no longer be Wes) and rejoin with this stream which is just complete understanding of infinity making it seem finite in understandability. Beyond that who knows.. should be fun to find out one day.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Em.hefner%2Fgarage%2Fsigpicture.jpg&hash=10710076d432e3d84b9dd0a12f8fbc8b)
It is good to be alive! It's impossible I'm here but here I am.. and I rock!
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Raedon
I had a similar 'idea' when questioning the nature of consciousness.
Gods bored with being omni-present, omni-potent, omni-----, to experience limitations his consciousness is scattered and limited, we are all parts of the god consciousness, we just don't realise it.
A new religion, based on a single axiom, with no proof, could work.
Its Fideist (requires faith as its main tenet), so should satisfy most (Catholics see fideism as heretical).
Lets give it a go.
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This is a pretty good link for anyone wanting to read up on the theory of evolution:
http://www.txtwriter.com/Backgrounders/Evolution/EVcontents.html
and yes, thats exactly what it is - a theory. science is basically a whole heap of theories waiting to be proven or disproven. even when we think we've found the answer to something there are usually exceptions, which bascially show that we havn't yet uncovered the whole story.
The only reason this theory has become as contentious as it has is because it goes against the creationist view of the church. whichever you believe is entirely up to you, but there's a whole load more evidence for evolution that there is creation.
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My debate on this is only that it is tought as fact instead of theory. Other then that, evolution is a more educated look at how we got here.
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Evolution is only a religion (whatever that means) if you believe that the whole world was "made" in 7 days. Which also goes against the whole field of Geology and common sense.... look at Hawaii its still being formed to this day. I have many Christian friends, but they interpret the bible whilst following common sense.
wOw the world spins?
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What ever you believe in, or not believe in, is so subjective that what ever you say you feel is right when it comes to your faith, your lack of faith, your religion or lack of religion...or whatever.....will always be open to scrutiny and debate.....the only fact that I can see is that we can never prove (at this time)one way or another that there is a god ...or not...and that's why threads like this go on and on and on and on...ad infinitum.....the conclusion is, if you are happy with what you believe in , then that's just just lovely and nice.....it's the ones who impose their own beliefs onto others with a lack of respect that pisses me off....
....also, Raedon (Wes), I just don't think you can get away with saying 'it's my theory and is not up for debate' when you yourself have already entered into a debate about someone elses belief.....anyway..thats what I have to say about that[:)]
I still like your car though....give us the stats on it will ya ?[:D]
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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quote:
Originally posted by neilep
also, Raedon (Wes), I just don't think you can get away with saying 'it's my theory and is not up for debate' when you yourself have already entered into a debate about someone elses belief.....anyway..thats what I have to say about that[:)]
I still like your car though....give us the stats on it will ya ?[:D]
Point taken. and thanks! The car has special Mojo powers on women. :)
As for the evolution is a religion thought. Religions are fact to those who believe them even though there is no proof. Evolution is not a fact but is considered fact by many and in the first elementary school Science texts as fact.
I guess I mean it is like religion not IS one.
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oh.. and it's a 99 Corvette FRC, Stage II heads and cam, TPIS long tube headers, cat delete x-pipe, 100 shot NOS threw a Vararam intake, ported throttle body, t1 sway bars, slammed one 1", Ripper shifter, HUD, 0-178 in a mile on the juice. The ghost flames have 15 hidden skulls that can only be seen in the right light. The car appears to be black from 10 feet away.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Em.hefner%2Fgarage%2Fsigpicture.jpg&hash=10710076d432e3d84b9dd0a12f8fbc8b)
It is good to be alive! It's impossible I'm here but here I am.. and I rock!
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WES....My word !!.....I wish I understood one thing you said about your car (that's me being cheeky)...but I'm sitting here thousands of miles away well impressed.. !!..what's the BHP and you have a V8 in there eh ?...and it looks cooooooooooool !!...actually..what I did understand was the top speed 178...phew !!..of course we're talking MPH here yes not..kph eh ?
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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it's right at 600 HP at the crank and 596 torque. I's a LS1 which is 350 Cu. inches of V-8. It actually gets great gas milage on the highway 31 MPG or I guess.
286.463 Kilometers per hour, 49.8897 Kilometers per gallon or.. ahh forget it lol.. I still can't beleve we didn't go metric in the 70's.
EDIT: oh and that isn't the top speed, that is just how fast it goes from a dead stop in a mile. Top speed is unknown.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Em.hefner%2Fgarage%2Fsigpicture.jpg&hash=10710076d432e3d84b9dd0a12f8fbc8b)
It is good to be alive! It's impossible I'm here but here I am.. and I rock!
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I wanna ride...me me me me me me me......me want ride........
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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quote:
Originally posted by Sandwalker
Raedon
I had a similar 'idea' when questioning the nature of consciousness.
Gods bored with being omni-present, omni-potent, omni-----, to experience limitations his consciousness is scattered and limited, we are all parts of the god consciousness, we just don't realise it.
A new religion, based on a single axiom, with no proof, could work.
Its Fideist (requires faith as its main tenet), so should satisfy most (Catholics see fideism as heretical).
Lets give it a go.
The problem is, I've lost ego many times before in my youth by removing space time threw compounds (and Greatful Dead tours.)
The power at the end of the Mandala is seperate from this consciousness we are part of. I don't think god has consciousness but the power of the geometer creates novelty.
It's so deep it hurts to think about without espresso.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Em.hefner%2Fgarage%2Fsigpicture.jpg&hash=10710076d432e3d84b9dd0a12f8fbc8b)
It is good to be alive! It's impossible I'm here but here I am.. and I rock!
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Me want to ride in that car too!!![8D][8D][8D] Yeh baby
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quote:
Originally posted by Claire
Me want to ride in that car too!!![8D][8D][8D] Yeh baby
If you were only 3500 or so miles closer, I could arrange that [8D]
or 5,632.69 Kilometers.. ..whatever..
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Oh I see, the bitch (sorry Claire, street speak ok) gets a definitive answer cos she's a girly...where I (as a bloke) who's well up for it......doesn't......hmmpth !!!...that's sexism for ya........what about if I wore a skirt and no knickers ?
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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Hey Claire and all other girlies....whould you like to go for a ride in MY babe magnet ? (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv286%2Fneilneil%2F1948_Citroen_2CV.jpg&hash=7ef49f7ab89f1625edcb1e7d4ee6c617)
just form an orderly queue[:D][:D]
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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quote:
Originally posted by neilep
what about if I wore a skirt and no knickers ?
I don't know.. how sexy are you in a skirt? [:D]
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.comcast.net%2F%7Em.hefner%2Fgarage%2Fsigpicture.jpg&hash=10710076d432e3d84b9dd0a12f8fbc8b)
It is good to be alive! It's impossible I'm here but here I am.. and I rock!
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Me want ride to!
More fun than navel contemplation.
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The only reality is the now! All else is hearsay and memory.
(Devils advocate am I.)
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quote:
Originally posted by Raedon
quote:
Originally posted by neilep
what about if I wore a skirt and no knickers ?
I don't know.. how sexy are you in a skirt? [:D]
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv185%2Fneilep%2Femployee.jpg&hash=77d7a2fe598ce6f623679bba786ea704)
WES....you'd be proud to show me off wouldn't ya ?..this just guarantees me a ride in your car eh ?
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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I... I.. don't know what to say.. O.o;
I'm both horrified and tingly all at the same time..
..
STOP USING YOUR SAILOR MOON POWERS ON ME!!!!!!!!!!
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ahh... and just to trash this thread to it's end.. thread jacked to hell (little biblical reference there.. keep'n it real.)
Because I care.. for all you out there in the world.. *SNIFF*
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