Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Chemistry => Topic started by: tintinxx on 09/01/2008 02:42:12
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I have always know that acids serve as potent rust removers. What is the chemical basis for that? Acid-base reaction? Oxidation-reduction? [???]
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Vinegar is acidic.. that must be why it works so well on removing rust from metallic surfaces like tools and rusty hinges etc.
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Not sure the acid actually even needs to attack the rust in order to protect it.
The problem with rust (and this is what makes iron different from a substance like aluminium or copper), is that the oxide (the rust) peels away from the metal, leaving exposed the layer beneath to be oxidised (if you compare this with aluminium or copper, they will both readily oxidise, but the oxide remains on the surface of the metal, rather than peeling away, and so will provide a protective layer that prevents the metal beneath from being exposed to oxygen).
All the acid really needs to do is provide a protective layer of salt on the surface of the metal that will prevent the metal beneath from being attacked (i.e. if the iron salt produced by the acid does not peel away from the metal in the way that the oxide does, then it will form a protective layer for the underlying metal).
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"attack the rust in order to protect it"
Pardon?
Vinegar can clean copper because the reaction of the copper oxide with the dilute acid is quite fast but the dilute acid won't react with copper (on it's own- in the presence of oxygen, it will)
Similarly the reaction of many metal oxides wiith acid is faster than the reaction of the metal.
In the particular case of cleaning rust from iron by the use of phosphoric acid not only does the acid react with the oxide rather than the metal, but it makes a relatively insoluble salt.
The reaction of the oxide with the acid is, as you sugested, an acid/base reaction.
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Hello everyone,
just wanted to give this conversation a little update. Had problems with rust in my garage (the pipes and tools). On my research I got an interesting german article recommended. <commercial link removed>
Helped me in many points, you can easy translate with the translate button on the right in the searchbar.
Hope it helps!
Best wishes.
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Could the element Iron be evolving rust as a protective shield, as our Carbon skin has evolved shields such as scabs and blisters?
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Could the element Iron be evolving rust as a protective shield, as our Carbon skin has evolved shields such as scabs and blisters?
No.
Iron doesn't have children.
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Could the element Iron be evolving rust as a protective shield, as our Carbon skin has evolved shields such as scabs and blisters?
No.
Iron doesn't have children.
If you were Iron, mightn't you claim that you've fathered some important children. Such as Steel. And Haemoglobin, the Iron-based protein responsible for transporting oxygen in the blood of vertebrates such as your goodself..
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Could the element Iron be evolving rust as a protective shield, as our Carbon skin has evolved shields such as scabs and blisters?
No.
Iron doesn't have children.
If you were Iron, mightn't you claim that you've fathered some important children. Such as Steel. And Haemoglobin, the Iron-based protein responsible for transporting oxygen in the blood of vertebrates such as your goodself..
perhaps, but someone might point out that they don't share the same characteristics that I have.
So evolution isn't an option.
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Don't give up BC. You may yet evolve to kick out the other competitors. And be crowned "King" of the forum.
Isn't that what you secretly lust after? Be honest.
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Don't give up BC. You may yet evolve to kick out the other competitors. And be crowned "King" of the forum.
Isn't that what you secretly lust after? Be honest.
No, I just wish people would stop cluttering it up with nonsense.
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All scientific theories are nonsense. Until the right theory is found. Then there's no other answer.
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All scientific theories are nonsense.
Are you sure you are in the right place?
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All scientific theories are nonsense.
Are you sure you are in the right place?
Isn't that a question that we all sometimes ponder. Not so much about this specific forum. More about the state of affairs on Earth, and in the Universe as a whole. The whole lot seems an incompetent, chaotic mess.
So of course we wonder whether the Universe is the right place for us to be in. It certainly isn't very well designed.
Any competent modern scientist, if tasked with designing a Universe, would've done a far better job.
Which leads to this conclusion. That if the Universe was created by God, He's definitely not a scientist.