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General Discussion & Feedback => Just Chat! => Topic started by: syhprum on 16/02/2019 09:57:41

Title: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: syhprum on 16/02/2019 09:57:41

Walls are very much in the news at present with USA president trying to get congress to allocate a ridiculous amount of money to build a wall between the USA and Mexico.
Data shows that two thirds of the illegal immigration of Mexicans into the USA takes place by people entering by legal means and over staying was it the same with the wall between the USSR western Europe I have always thought that there are better ways of getting across than dodging the bullets of border guards. 

Title: Re: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: alancalverd on 16/02/2019 12:32:22

Walls are primarily of propaganda value, and their construction can be a means of the state covertly financing manual labor in times of high unemployment.

Trump's fanciful election boast that the Mexicans would pay for it was efficiently demolished by a television interview in which President Nieto briefly switched to English with "I no pay your f***ing wall" before reverting to important matters of state. And thus it came to pass.

In the words of General Patton: "Static defenses are monuments to human stupidity."  Drugs, and the serious criminals associated with drugs, travel by sea and air.

Apropos the Berlin wall, various friends and acquaintances over the years absconded from ships' or aircraft crews or organised tours, timed a sprint across no-man's land, or in one case "borrowed" a herd of cows to walk through a minefield. As with all genuine refugees, they were a cut above average for intelligence and risk assessment, and all ended up as very successful consultants or entrepreneurs. My favorite, who sadly I never met, worked in an umbrella factory. He made a black hot-air balloon from stolen umbrella fabric and bits of gas stove, and flew quietly (using continuous marginal burn) over the border one night.

Title: Re: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/02/2019 20:09:20

Well, it had zero effect on airplanes flying over it.
And that's how most illegal immigrants from Mexico get to the US.

Title: Re: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: syhprum on 16/02/2019 21:57:20

Not quite zero effect when I flew from Kiel Via Frankfurt to Berlin in 1978 I had to fly by an airline operated by one of the occupying powers Lufthansa was not allowed to operate the route.

Title: Re: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: Bored chemist on 16/02/2019 22:04:42

Quote from: syhprum on 16/02/2019 21:57:20

Not quite zero effect when I flew from Kiel Via Frankfurt to Berlin in 1978 I had to fly by an airline operated by one of the occupying powers Lufthansa was not allowed to operate the route.

The wall was not the cause of the effect you observed.

Title: Re: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: Petrochemicals on 17/02/2019 00:12:04

Very effective, the targets where forced to stop being moving ones. But thats the key, they are only as good as the people watching them. The israeli jerusalem wall works, but again its only as good as the security. A long border wall doos not work unless you have major security forces.

Ive thought about this before 2000 miles of trump wall, on average 2 guards every 1/4 mile, 5+ shifts to cover 24/7, 30000 people, so actually making the wall secure will cost a fair ammount. Grappling hooks, ropes over the top and tied, dig under, explosives etc trumps border wall should be defeated fairly quickly without extra man power.

I think i would build a string of large luxurious outposts, put the money into higher wages and better equipment and hire more people if I wanted to stop the  cross desert expeditions.

Title: Re: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: Bored chemist on 17/02/2019 17:31:32

Quote from: Petrochemicals on 17/02/2019 00:12:04

Very effective, the targets where forced to stop being moving ones. But thats the key, they are only as good as the people watching them. The israeli jerusalem wall works, but again its only as good as the security. A long border wall doos not work unless you have major security forces.

Ive thought about this before 2000 miles of trump wall, on average 2 guards every 1/4 mile, 5+ shifts to cover 24/7, 30000 people, so actually making the wall secure will cost a fair ammount. Grappling hooks, ropes over the top and tied, dig under, explosives etc trumps border wall should be defeated fairly quickly without extra man power.

I think i would build a string of large luxurious outposts, put the money into higher wages and better equipment and hire more people if I wanted to stop the  cross desert expeditions.

I must have missed something.
What will that achieve?

Title: Re: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: Petrochemicals on 18/02/2019 03:50:07

Quote from: Bored chemist on 17/02/2019 17:31:32

Quote from: Petrochemicals on 17/02/2019 00:12:04

Very effective, the targets where forced to stop being moving ones. But thats the key, they are only as good as the people watching them. The israeli jerusalem wall works, but again its only as good as the security. A long border wall doos not work unless you have major security forces.

Ive thought about this before 2000 miles of trump wall, on average 2 guards every 1/4 mile, 5+ shifts to cover 24/7, 30000 people, so actually making the wall secure will cost a fair ammount. Grappling hooks, ropes over the top and tied, dig under, explosives etc trumps border wall should be defeated fairly quickly without extra man power.

I think i would build a string of large luxurious outposts, put the money into higher wages and better equipment and hire more people if I wanted to stop the  cross desert expeditions.

I must have missed something.
What will that achieve?

It would stop the desert ingress, of which there is much. People trafficking and drug trafficking  do go hand in hand, drug mule work i should imagine are part of the way people pay smugglers. The remote places in the usa are known for cross border migration.

Title: Re: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: Bored chemist on 18/02/2019 19:46:59

Quote from: Petrochemicals on 18/02/2019 03:50:07

It would stop the desert ingress, of which there is much.

https://xkcd.com/285/

Title: Re: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: Petrochemicals on 19/02/2019 18:23:14

https://xkcd.com/

Title: Re: How effective was the "berlin wall"
Post by: neilep on 03/03/2019 22:08:54

Is now the time to start a career in wall construction ?