Naked Science Forum
General Science => General Science => Topic started by: neilep on 10/11/2009 12:01:05
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Dearest Academic Peeps Of Klevernuss and Awe,
As a sheepy I am of course a well established breed, I've been around for quite some time. I don't think I was a dino-sheep though in dino-times.
As ewe all know Dinos are not around any more because they all buggered off the planet in dino-space ships when they saw a big rocky thing heading this way.
look, here a real bona fide piccy of a dino perusing the gastronomical delights of another world.
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A Real Picture Of A Real Dino
What I would like to know is, when that big rocky thing crashed into the Earth, how did the species that survived actually survive ?.....can ewe tell me some species that are around today that survived the big rocky thing ?..and how they did it ?
As a firm believer in empirical study I crashed a big rocky thing into my neighbours house at 3am this morning. He's a trickster as he is playing hide and seek amongst the rubble so he has not given me any data, and yet, I know I can hear him whimpering..he must be trying so hard to contain his laughter !.....so...no luck there.
Can ewe help ?
Hugs & shmishes
mwah mwah mwah mwah !!
neil
How Did Species Survive The Big Crash ?
That Rocked This World With A Big Bright Flash
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crocodiles and insects are the ones i can think of
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Thanks Nizzle,...yes..yes ..I should have said 'omitting insects'....so where did crocs go to escape the big rocky thing ?..any ideas ?
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They were on holiday with the tortoises and turtles.
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They were on holiday with the tortoises and turtles.
Then why no postcard ?
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They were on holiday with the tortoises and turtles.
Then why no postcard ?
Don't be silly, the Royal Mail were on strike...... Tsk, tsk, tsk, don't you read the news?
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I think there can be little doubt that a great number of insects, crocodilians and chelonians perished in the mass extinction which proved to be the nemesis of the dinosaurs rule. But sufficient numbers survived to leave a viable breeding stock. How they survived, I doubt we can ever know for certain, but it is very possible that their size and adaptability played a significant role.
The giant dinosaurs would have required giant sized portions on their plate. With much vegetation suffering as a consequence of the big rocky thing buggering up the system, those which survived the initial consequences would have had trouble obtaining enough food to survive in the ensuing years. The smallest herbivores would have found competition from their big cousins too much to compete with. A contributing factor may well have been that many dinosaurs may have evolved to specialise in their eating habits. So a shortage of a particular plant type would also have had devastating effects on those which depended on them.
Obviously, if there is a shortage of herbivores, the surviving carnivores would suffer. With ever fewer herbivores to predate, they would have to take whatever they could. This might well mean having to tackle an equally strong and well armed carnivore. With such a shortage of food, only the most adaptable would be able to survive.
It has to be borne in mind that the mass extinction did not happen over night, nor over a few weeks, months or years. It was a slow process, with species dying out over a great many years. Although that big rocky thing may have been the instigator of the extinction, it was the subsequent consequences which finished off the job.
One of the reasons the crocodilians survived may have been their watery habitat. Not only might the water have proved a shelter from the initial catastrophic event, it would also have been a draw to surviving animals. Thus the crocs could be almost assured of food. And then, there is the fact that crocs aren't particular about what they eat. A vital factor in survival at such a time.
The turtles would have had similar advantages to the crocs, while the tortoises, which may have already been around for 200+ million years had probably evolved to be nonspecialist. Their shell protected them against predation, to a degree, and against dehydration. It could also be that the tortoises slow pace became a distinct advantage. Using little energy to move around, the tortoise can go long periods without food or water and being so low, they would have the advantage of being able to find and eat new shoots as they broke the grounds surface. Again, it is a fact that tortoises eat a wide variety of plants.
The tortoises and turtles may have had one other advantage. They had come through quite a few previous minor mass extinctions and their earliest cousins, the anapsids, survived the greatest mass extinction of them all during the Permian period. Perhaps survival of such natural disasters has been somehow imprinted into their genetic code. I only hope they will survive the unnatural threat posed by man.
There were other creatures around at this time. The earliest mammals were already on the scene, just waiting for their opportunity to become the new rulers of planet Earth, and this was it!
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Didn't some of the dinos hang around and evolve into birds?
Next time you tell your budgie he's a pretty boy, consider that he's waiting for an opportunity to evolve into Tyrannosaurus Budgie so he can bite your head off.
[diagram=539_0]
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I think there can be little doubt that a great number of insects, crocodilians and chelonians perished in the mass extinction which proved to be the nemesis of the dinosaurs rule. But sufficient numbers survived to leave a viable breeding stock. How they survived, I doubt we can ever know for certain, but it is very possible that their size and adaptability played a significant role.
The giant dinosaurs would have required giant sized portions on their plate. With much vegetation suffering as a consequence of the big rocky thing buggering up the system, those which survived the initial consequences would have had trouble obtaining enough food to survive in the ensuing years. The smallest herbivores would have found competition from their big cousins too much to compete with. A contributing factor may well have been that many dinosaurs may have evolved to specialise in their eating habits. So a shortage of a particular plant type would also have had devastating effects on those which depended on them.
Obviously, if there is a shortage of herbivores, the surviving carnivores would suffer. With ever fewer herbivores to predate, they would have to take whatever they could. This might well mean having to tackle an equally strong and well armed carnivore. With such a shortage of food, only the most adaptable would be able to survive.
It has to be borne in mind that the mass extinction did not happen over night, nor over a few weeks, months or years. It was a slow process, with species dying out over a great many years. Although that big rocky thing may have been the instigator of the extinction, it was the subsequent consequences which finished off the job.
One of the reasons the crocodilians survived may have been their watery habitat. Not only might the water have proved a shelter from the initial catastrophic event, it would also have been a draw to surviving animals. Thus the crocs could be almost assured of food. And then, there is the fact that crocs aren't particular about what they eat. A vital factor in survival at such a time.
The turtles would have had similar advantages to the crocs, while the tortoises, which may have already been around for 200+ million years had probably evolved to be nonspecialist. Their shell protected them against predation, to a degree, and against dehydration. It could also be that the tortoises slow pace became a distinct advantage. Using little energy to move around, the tortoise can go long periods without food or water and being so low, they would have the advantage of being able to find and eat new shoots as they broke the grounds surface. Again, it is a fact that tortoises eat a wide variety of plants.
The tortoises and turtles may have had one other advantage. They had come through quite a few previous minor mass extinctions and their earliest cousins, the anapsids, survived the greatest mass extinction of them all during the Permian period. Perhaps survival of such natural disasters has been somehow imprinted into their genetic code. I only hope they will survive the unnatural threat posed by man.
There were other creatures around at this time. The earliest mammals were already on the scene, just waiting for their opportunity to become the new rulers of planet Earth, and this was it!
Wicked answer from the tortoise bloke !...very very grateful for your insight !.....so, does this mean all tortoises and crocs are deaf ?...cos that would have been one helluva loud shock wave soundy thing travelling round the Earth. I guess all the dying dinos also became food for what ever survived them too !
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Didn't some of the dinos hang around and evolve into birds?
Next time you tell your budgie he's a pretty boy, consider that he's waiting for an opportunity to evolve into Tyrannosaurus Budgie so he can bite your head off.
[diagram=539_0]
Whoa !!..I hope my Christmas Turkey does not come back and do that to me ?
...erhhmm..that is it's foot yes ?...or has it received some horrible disfiguring trauma to it joy dept ?
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Er, well I see what you mean. Bifurcated wedding takle could be problematic. I think the "artist" intended it to represent a foot though.
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It's a luffley foot ...a remarkable foot....he would make a very good captain Hook Budgie with a foot like that !
Yep, he fits the bill and of such quality he would not come cheep !
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. [ Invalid Attachment ]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gigantoraptor_size.png
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,281833,00.html
BTW try so-called "living fossils" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_fossil) for existing creatures who are very similar, (but not exactly the same), as ancient fossils.
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That's one funky chicken.
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Bifurcated wedding takle could be problematic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphallia
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I thought that Komodo Dragons are the last remaining ancestors of the dinosaurs and as far
as I'm aware that they live in and around Indonesia's archipelago also on the Galapagos Islands.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi38.tinypic.com%2F2i7tv69.jpg&hash=1e1b593f7dc609ddd37f3940b97c53e4)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komodo_dragon
Also bats
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Komodo dragons have only been around for 40 million years.
The closest living relatives of dinosaurs are Archosaurs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archosaur
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Komodo dragons have only been around for 40 million years.
The closest living relatives of dinosaurs are Archosaurs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archosaur
Really only I saw them on my TV recently from a David Attenborough programme and that's what he said also I've learnt during my life. They aren't "pretty" creatures.
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No, I think Stefan is about right at 40m years.
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No, I think Stefan is about right at 40m years.
Ok but what about Bats?? They are from the dinosaur era originally.
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The earliest fossil bats are about 52 million years old. These bats already looked similar to modern bats, so they had to have been evolving into bats some time before this. However I would suggest that they waited for the dinosaurs to go exinct before they did so, since the majority of new mammal forms followed this evolutionary pattern. 15 million years is a long time.
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Being mammals, as Stefan has said, the bats probably had to wait for the demise of the dinosaurs before they could take to the skies.
There is fossil evidence of bats up to 54 million years old. These earliest bats did not have the echo location ability of today's bats, but they were already pretty close to modern bats. That fact would suggest that there are earlier examples yet to be found.
I would suggest it very likely that the bat evolved from a shrew like tree dweller which, like the modern flying squirrel, developed the ability to glide in the first instance.
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Perhaps David Attenborough was referring to these reptiles, rather than dinosaurs? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosasaur
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Perhaps David Attenborough was referring to these reptiles, rather than dinosaurs? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosasaur
This is the programme that David Attenborough was referring to reptiles from and creepy crawlies too. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nj6dr
It is about living animals
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The closest living relatives of dinosaurs are Archosaurs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archosaur
Reading the name, I never thought that it was a bird. I thought it was a turtle/tortoise whose body looks like a lizard because I thought that Archosaur = Archelon + Sauros
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I would say that crocodiles and insects are here since that time. A very long time ;)
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Birds are relatives with quite a few prehistoric animals, such as the coelurosaurs. Scientists nowadays say that birds are just like living dinosaurs in the modern era.
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Komodo dragons have only been around for 40 million years.