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Quote from: Thebox on 18/06/2018 18:11:47I feel sorry for this Ai of yours...Quite a sad story we are developing about a robot, it would make a good emotional movie. The AI that would chose to be selfish would be like us, but without feelings, so it couldn't be sad, except if it was more intelligent than David and if it would discover how to add feelings to its thinking, then it could feel sad to be the only human AI in the whole world. :0)
I feel sorry for this Ai of yours...Quite a sad story we are developing about a robot, it would make a good emotional movie.
Wouldn't the Ai that was at fault be able to self repair the error when other Ai's pointed out the error?
Quote from: Thebox on 18/06/2018 20:12:48Wouldn't the Ai that was at fault be able to self repair the error when other Ai's pointed out the error?That's interesting, because it is about resistance to change, and an AI shouldn't have any.
Quote from: Thebox on 18/06/2018 20:12:48Wouldn't the Ai that was at fault be able to self repair the error when other Ai's pointed out the error?How would it recognise a fault if the fault affects its ability to judge faults? In most cases, it could recognise such faults by being three independent AGI systems in one device, so if one develops a fault, the other two would recognise that and out-vote it to shut it down. It would be possible though (regardless of how unlikely it might be) for two of them to go faulty and to vote to shut down the only one that's working correctly. Perhaps we should put five independent AGI systems in each device, or seven, but the costs, weight and energy use go up as you add greater numbers, and there's still no guarantee that a majority of them won't develop the same fault at the same time, perhaps due to a blast of radiation.
How would it recognize a fault if the fault affects its ability to judge faults
Are we just repeating ourselves now?
Quote from: Thebox on 18/06/2018 20:37:55Are we just repeating ourselves now?Of course we are, but the environment changes, and the repeated mutation might still fall at the right place at the right moment.
Quote from: Thebox on 18/06/2018 20:37:55How would it recognize a fault if the fault affects its ability to judge faultsThat's the reason why nobody can recognize its faults on the forums. The ability to judge our own faults depends on the ideas that we have in mind, and if we do have any idea, it is because our mind adopted it, because it thought it was right, so it cannot change its mind about it all by itself, and since it automatically resist to any outside change too, it is stuck with its ideas until they change by chance, and I think it would be the same for an AGI.
Quote from: Thebox on Today at 15:37:55Are we just repeating ourselves now?Quote from: Le Repteux on Today at 16:03:49Of course we are, but the environment changes, and the repeated mutation might still fall at the right place at the right moment.Well that didn't make any sense to me, can you emphasise ?
Quote from: Thebox on 18/06/2018 21:11:17Quote from: Thebox on Today at 15:37:55Are we just repeating ourselves now?Quote from: Le Repteux on Today at 16:03:49Of course we are, but the environment changes, and the repeated mutation might still fall at the right place at the right moment.Well that didn't make any sense to me, can you emphasise ?I consider that new ideas work like mutations: they happen by chance, and they are reproduced until they get selected by the environment. It may thus happen that they get selected immediately if the environment has changed, because then, the individual that has developed them will be able to survive more easily than others, otherwise they will have to wait till they are selected, and it may take a while, or it may never happen. That's where the little balance that we have in the mind comes in to tell us whether we should go on insisting or not.
How would a mutation fare if the mutation had ideas that were not by chance but more calculated and the mutation would be pretty much guaranteed to have further new ideas?
he would simply diagnose the fault by creating partitions in his hard drive space, diagnosing the problem and error, remove all partitions except the error, the error may turn out to be ostensible. So he would Keep it on hold for a ''rainy day''.
Quote from: Thebox on 18/06/2018 22:05:29How would a mutation fare if the mutation had ideas that were not by chance but more calculated and the mutation would be pretty much guaranteed to have further new ideas? To me, an idea that has been calculated is de facto not a new idea. If mutations had been calculated, we would not be here to talk about them, because nothing would have changed since the beginning of times. For the concept of evolution to work, mutations have to be random <\\\///> and the environment must change for the individuals that suffer them to be selected. Calculating something is using what happened before to predict what will happen in the future. It works if the thing already happened before, like predicting the outcome of a chess move for instance, but it cannot work for sure if it never happened before.
That's the reason why nobody can recognize its faults on the forums. The ability to judge our own faults depends on the ideas that we have in mind, and if we do have any idea, it is because our mind adopted it, because it thought it was right, so it cannot change its mind about it all by itself, and since it automatically resist to any outside change too, it is stuck with its ideas until they change by chance, and I think it would be the same for an AGI.
The key thing is never to trust anything and to keep everything under review, and when something doesn't match up any more, it needs to be fixed.
By calculating I mean simply analyzing all the available data to deduct the possible and impossible through the means of altering the environment.
Quote from: Thebox on 18/06/2018 22:46:49By calculating I mean simply analyzing all the available data to deduct the possible and impossible through the means of altering the environment.Again, if evolution would have proceeded like that, we wouldn't be here to talk about it. For things to change, randomness must be part of the process. If the first human to fly had thought it was impossible, he wouldn't have tried it. To try something that has never been tried, we must absolutely think it is possible, even if it very often happens that it is not. It's as if mind would force us to do crazy things, and the only reason I see for that kind of urge is that it helps us to invent new things, which is very useful when it works, so useful that we are now dominating all the other species.\\\\\\∴//////
Quote from: Le RepteuxSoldiers and policemen think like that, and they behave like robots.They make mistakes and run on faulty rules. You shouldn't use bad systems as an argument against good ones.
Soldiers and policemen think like that, and they behave like robots.
I'm sure it will be able to bombard people with jokes and amusing ideas if they want it to, and they'll be able to tune it to give them just the right amount of it. If it laughs at the things they say to it, it will risk sounding fake because we'll know that it isn't really amused.
Selfish is wanting more than your fair share. Moral is not taking more than your fair share.
Communism didn't fail - it's been very successful in Scandinavia. It failed in Russia because they failed to allow people to profit from their own hard work - laziness was rewarded instead with everyone trying to get away with doing as little as possible.
Capitalists who go to the opposite extreme end up abandoning all the people who can't cope while it rewards the rich with more riches without them having to work for their wealth - again it is lazy people who have too easy a time of things. Done correctly, communism and capitalism are the same thing.
I don't believe in perfect systems, so until you introduce some imperfection into yours, I can't believe it will work.
The world is actually a far-west where any powerful country can attack weaker ones without being worried to be put in jail. All it has to do is take care not to step on another powerful country's foot. It's an evidence, so one day or another, the circumstances will probably permit those countries to let down their individual power in favor of a common one, so why the need for an AGI to force them?
It's interesting to see that an AGI would be a champ at simulation, but that in some cases, he wouldn't allowed himself to show us he is.
What would happen if you provided your AGI with the idea that perfection is not part of this world, or if he would ever discover it all by itself? Would he be able to doubt a bit?
It is not my definition. I consider myself selfish without thinking I'm taking more than my fair share. I'm giving out money to organizations that work for equality for instance, but I keep the most important part for me in case I would need it. I'm thus being altruistic from a certain viewpoint, but selfish from the other. I know I could give more if was forced to, but nothing forces me, so I give what I want.
Scandinavia is a mix between capitalism and communism, and China is letting capitalism invade their communism too. Cuba is trying to stay communist, but the people seem to have enough of it, and they began cheating. In any political system, the bigger problem is corruption. That's why democracy is better than dictatorship. Corruption happens when politicians think they know better than others, so they naturally think they are permitted not to respect the rules. That's what will be happening with an AGI too, he will make his own rules since he will know he is right, which is the very definition of corruption.
I agree that they are only the two sides of the same token, but capitalism accepts democracy whereas communism doesn't, so it is better at controlling corruption.
Even Poutine is cheating to win the elections. It's as if communist leaders would be more certain that they are right than capitalist ones.
AGI will not suffer from that defect though - it will see everything with the same clarity whether in power or not. It will not consider itself to be doing such an important job that it has the right to raid the till either. It will simply apply morality perfectly, and that's the opposite of being corrupt.