Naked Science Forum
General Science => General Science => Topic started by: wolram on 17/02/2006 19:14:22
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Surely a length of any thing able to reach into space will have serious problems without some sort of (damper) to prevent serious oscillations leading to catastrophic failure?
http://www.elevator2010.org/site/index.html
A born optimist...
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And what happens when you get half way up, and someone cuts the rope?
OK, so it is a simplification, but it does seem to me that such a massive structure would be immensely vulnerable to both accident and malice.
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I think the premise behind such an idea is that once it's in place and running, it saves on the risky business of sending craft into space for a whole myriad of reasons...economics being quite a high priority. It could be a life line for a space station, a way to transport goods , materials and supplies all without the cost and risk of launching a rocket/space plane etc. Certainly as far as air space and vunerability is concerned it could be a contentious issue and most certainly catastrophic if the worst kind of failure happened.
Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
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I was thinking more about the variations of wind direction, strengh,in the earths atmosphere acting
on the tether.
A born optomist
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Absolutely..I agree. Presumably they will have to come up with some very advanced matehmatical models to even begin designing the thing taking all thos things into consideration.....materials for the construction of such an entity, how high they can go, it would have to be huge and the foundations for it even huger....especially if it's to transport large cargo.
Even if they fail to complete such a construction, no doubt lessons will be learned from the attempt.
Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
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The only thing that had occurred to me a few times in the past is, rather than use a physical structure, could one not use a high energy microwave been (although I would not like to be a bird that strays through such a beam).
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Wasn't there (or isn't there) a study into doing exactly that ?..except using some sort of pulsating light beam ?
Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
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I think you are talking about high energy lasers, it has been demonstrated in labs that a vehicle
can be driven by such earth bound devices.
A born optomist
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there is a ben bovis book which has much too say about the possibilities of space elevators( yes i know its fiction)you might like to read it for the thoughts on the social and political ramifications of such a device and though im no expert on the subject i belive its basic design is based on scientific models though the construction method probably not i think the book is mercury and its a good read
"Defender of the Sea"
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Cant see how it would be possible, any cable would have to be pulled up and i cant see how a cable would be able to hold its own weight when you consider how far space actually is.
but if it were possible it could be used as a power station as well as an elevator as i believe a cable extending out into space would pick up a charge.
Michael
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I have found this in depth article in Wikipedia, it is a very interesing
read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator
A born optomist
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Nice one Robin...that just about covers it all...thanks.
Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
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Strangely enough I was reading about this exact topic last night at http://science.howstuffworks.com/space-elevator.htm
Also, has anyone read "Fountains Of Paradise" by Arthur C Clarke? I believe that's where the whole concept came from.
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Another great link...thanks Eth.
I recall an episode of Star Trek Voyager where the space elevator was used...it was self propelled. Bit more high brow than Arthur C Clarke don't you think ? [;)]
Men are the same as women.... just inside out !!
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No, I don't [:(!]
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I just stumbled across this thread: here are a couple of points.
1. Star Trek Voyager more high brow than Arthur C. Clarke!??! Please reassure me that the wink was to confirm your tongue was in your cheek.
2. Clarke did not invent the concept. It had been independently 'invented' by at least two persons a decade or more earlier. Clarke popularised it. Another sf novel, by Charles Sheffield, also dealing with a space elevatore was published at the same time. I think it is a better read, but Clarke's name means his is the one that is remembered.
Observe; collate; conjecture; analyse; hypothesise; test; validate; theorise. Repeat until complete.
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I know that NASA engineers have been studying the feasability of a space elevator for some time now. Their conclusion is that it can't be done right now, but the engineering and materials challenges are not insurmountable. The primary hurdle is developing a material strong enough yet light enough for the main cable. There are such materials in the labratory now in the form of carbon nanotubes. The challenge now is developing the technology for the size needed for this project. Here is a link to a popular NASA article
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast07sep_1.htm
And here is one with lots of info and links:
http://www.spaceelevator.com
And here is an organization that sounds fun:
http://www.elevator2010.org/site/index.html
This is exciting work! To me this is much more promising than the "cheap rockets" that are being touted by the X-prize and such. The space elevator would be a permanent structure dedicated to the utilitarian aspects of getting off this planet's surface.
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John - The Eternal Pessimist.
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quote:
Originally posted by wolram
I was thinking more about...the earths atmosphere acting on the tether.
I agree Wolram, a "space tether" would be a lightning conductor for the whole earth.
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If the teather breaks above you the consequenses are not that bad, because you are not orbiting very fast you do not have a lot of energy to loose so you probably won't burn up on reentry, so if you carry a parachute you will be fine, or you will be so high that you will go into a very elliptical orbit.
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Btw, how are they going to built the part where the elevator goes through the atmosphere? Is it even possible?
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Why not? All sorts of things move through the atmosphere every day.
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Btw, how are they going to built the part where the elevator goes through the atmosphere? Is it even possible?
Yes, as Alan points out, that's not an issue at all. The part in space is the problem since it cannot easily take action to avoid space junk.
They are planning on building a low-tech one within the next decade that reaches in the opposite direction, from the moon to just shy of geosync graveyard orbit. That avoids the vast majority of junk, but it doesn't help ferry consumables up to the ISS.
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As I recall, Arthur Clarke imagined a space elevator on Mars.
But the moons of Mars orbit at a lower altitude than synchronous orbit, so that would be a major obstacle...
- He imagined setting up an oscillation in the elevator
- And tuning the frequency by the movement of the cars up and down the elevator
- So it missed Phobos & Diemos every time