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  4. Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
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Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?

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Offline Pseudoscience-is-malarkey (OP)

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Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« on: 09/09/2021 01:05:25 »
A Russian reportedly did this in 1935 and became an international celebrity and a fixture in Stalin's court. To many, this vindicated communism. However, he became too popular for Stalin's comfort and thus considered a threat, which called for him to die. But he called it off due to the unexpected invasion by the nazis.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2021 11:52:10 by Pseudoscience-is-malarkey »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Someone mined 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes?
« Reply #1 on: 09/09/2021 08:38:04 »
With enough heavy machinery, yes.
Or you could "cheat" by spending lots of time undercutting coal, but not not actually bringing it down.
Then one day, dig out all the coal you previously loosened.


Quote from: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 09/09/2021 01:05:25
A Russian reportedly did this
What did he get, another day older and deeper in debt?
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Offline Petrochemicals

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Re: Someone mined 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes?
« Reply #2 on: 09/09/2021 09:25:15 »
That is 50 square metreish. It isn't a lot from a coal face. Did he pack it and bring it to the surface too?
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Offline TommyJ

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Re: Someone mined 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes?
« Reply #3 on: 09/09/2021 11:36:26 »
Alexey Grigoryevich Stakhanov: Record disputed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Stakhanov#Record_disputed
No heavy machinery, several people. It was a new technology of team working, when they needed to mine the coal and fortified with logs the vault of the mine.
I believe there must be a special case of the mining front, where fortification is easy and the mining front is wide enough.
Cannot argue the numbers.
There are many videos on youtube showing, how mining is done in extreme cases.
Still in many cases automatization and heavy machinery may not be implemented in the front.
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Offline TommyJ

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #4 on: 09/09/2021 12:47:57 »
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 09/09/2021 09:25:15
Did he pack it and bring it to the surface too?
No, just 'mined', not bringing to the surface.
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Offline Petrochemicals

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #5 on: 09/09/2021 13:06:05 »
Quote from: TommyJ on 09/09/2021 12:47:57
Quote from: Petrochemicals on 09/09/2021 09:25:15
Did he pack it and bring it to the surface too?
No, just 'mined', not bringing to the surface.

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Offline TommyJ

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #6 on: 09/09/2021 13:30:12 »
Commenting the news André Gide asked if that could mean that previously the miners were working just 14 times worse?
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Offline Just thinking

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #7 on: 16/09/2021 18:40:42 »
In 1935 they had steam engines that burnt more coal than that in a day locomotives that weigh 600 tons and all the coal was shovelled in.
* DSCN2918 (2).JPG (960.48 kB . 4194x1421 - viewed 1279 times)
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #8 on: 16/09/2021 19:31:53 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 16/09/2021 18:40:42
In 1935 they had steam engines that burnt more coal than that in a day
Got evidence?
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Offline Just thinking

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #9 on: 16/09/2021 19:47:36 »

* Big boy locomotive..PNG (634.08 kB . 671x704 - viewed 1285 times)
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/09/2021 19:31:53
Got evidence?
Yes, the big boy locomotives carried 38 tons of coal and when working hard it will consume all of that within two hours as well as that much water.
« Last Edit: 16/09/2021 19:56:10 by Just thinking »
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #10 on: 16/09/2021 21:08:52 »
Well, It seems to say 29 tons.
(WIKI says 28 short tons)
29 tons in 2 hour is 14.5 tons per hour.
Whereas 102 tons of coal in 5 hours is over 20 tons per hour.
So... not quite.

And, rather more importantly, Wiki also tells me
". Coal was carried from the tender to the firebox by a stoker motor: a steam engine driving an auger."
« Last Edit: 16/09/2021 21:13:36 by Bored chemist »
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Offline Just thinking

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #11 on: 16/09/2021 21:20:47 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/09/2021 21:08:52
Well, It seems to say 29 tons.
29 tons in 2 hour is 14.5 tons per hour.
Whereas 102 tons of coal in 5 hours is over 20 tons per hour.
So... not quite.
You weren't paying attention I said more than 102 tons in a day that is 24 hours making it possible for this locomotive to consume over 400 tons of coal in a 24 hour period and that is taking into consideration for reloading every 2 hours. And the train runs for longer than 24 hours crossing the US.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #12 on: 16/09/2021 21:28:52 »
102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes implies about 425 tons per day.
14.5 tons per hour implies about 350 tons per day.

But the point is moot.
Who cares what a machine can do?
Obviously, there were things that shifted coal faster than that, but the important aspect of the (admittedly dubious) record is that it was done by a man, rather than a steam powered auger.
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Offline Just thinking

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #13 on: 16/09/2021 21:37:44 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 16/09/2021 21:28:52
Obviously, there were things that shifted coal faster than that, but the important aspect of the (admittedly dubious) record is that it was done by a man, rather than a steam powered auger.
The OP only stated 1935 technology what technology a pick and hand shovel?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #14 on: 16/09/2021 22:52:24 »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackhammer
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Offline TommyJ

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #15 on: 17/09/2021 08:31:55 »
The end of XIX - beginning of XX mining tools: hand drills, hammers, pneumatic coal picks, blasting (where it is possible), collapsing of the coal seam roof was used for the thick coal seams.
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Offline Just thinking

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #16 on: 17/09/2021 14:55:23 »
Quote from: TommyJ on 17/09/2021 08:31:55
The end of XIX - beginning of XX mining tools: hand drills, hammers, pneumatic coal picks, blasting (where it is possible), collapsing of the coal seam roof was used for the thick coal seams.
There was no shortage of power and technology in 1935 to extract coal. Coal mining was the main necessity for advancement in tool technology and machinery after the first war. PS and before the first war.
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Offline TommyJ

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #17 on: 17/09/2021 15:20:00 »
1. The industrial field was not so advanced and implemented in Russia at that time.
2. Stakhanov team used pneumatic coal picks.
3. His 'new idea' of the teamwork strategy was: effective tasks separation.
4. He selected a coal-rich mine site for the test.
5. The record ‘confusion’ is that actually 5 miners were working, but the whole volume was attributed only to Stakhanov.
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Offline Just thinking

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #18 on: 17/09/2021 15:38:10 »
Quote from: TommyJ on 17/09/2021 15:20:00
1. The industrial field was not so advanced and implemented in Russia at that time.
2. Stakhanov team used pneumatic coal picks.
3. His 'new idea' of the teamwork strategy was: effective tasks separation.
4. He selected a coal-rich mine site for the test.
5. The record ‘confusion’ is that actually 5 miners were working, but the whole volume was attributed only to Stakhanov.
I think this whole thing is a Russian attempt to push workers to work harder and achieve the goal of achievement steam power was an industrial achievement long before 1935 in all civilized countries and coal is the main source of fire.
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Offline TommyJ

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Re: Can someone mine 102 tons of coal in 5 hours and 45 minutes w/ 1935 technology?
« Reply #19 on: 17/09/2021 16:08:07 »
Quote from: Just thinking on 17/09/2021 15:38:10
I think this whole thing is a Russian attempt to push workers to work harder and achieve the goal of achievement steam power was an industrial achievement long before 1935 in all civilized countries and coal is the main source of fire.
I think so.
By one local example they pushed the industry with hands. That former united area is reach in coal and workers and its output in the end.
Trying to understand leads to depths of history)
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