Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: Pecos_Bill on 02/09/2015 04:33:03

Title: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Pecos_Bill on 02/09/2015 04:33:03
This thread was split off from "Do your genes affect your GCSE grades? ".
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=59909.0
It deals with the question of who controls science (and the publicity of science research).
Note: the focus of this forum is on the science, not the politics...  Moderator.

"Behavioral genetics" a science.... or Tory propaganda ?

This Plomin bird is hooked up with Michael Gove [ ptui!] - the former Tory education Minister and now Tory whip    (see below)


****
Let's see what others have to say...

The zombie theory of innate IQ

Attempts are being made to resuscitate the idea that ability is predetermined by our genes – doubtless linked to moves within the Conservative Party to reintroduce grammar schools and selection at 11. Recent research by Robert Plomin claims that 60 percent of achievement in GCSE Maths or Science is genetic. His work is acclaimed by Michael Gove’s senior adviser Dominic Cummings. (See the linked article earlier in this issue Bad science, worse politics.). The belief that academic ability is genetically inherited has long served to justify inequality. [1.]

***************

Finally, this garbage  was published in 2013.

What is the political reason that it has shown up here, today -- 2 years later ?

Is this not just some Tory agitprop masquerading here as science??

In America this stinking racist garbage would go into the nearest cess pool. Shame on you people that it pollutes this forum at all. Who has twisted your arm?



[1.]http://www.changingschools.org.uk/E4L%20zombie%20IQ.pdf
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: alancalverd on 02/09/2015 07:36:22
No need for the ranting: I don't think anyone with a wisp of intelligence or humanity likes the Tory party or Mr Gove, but please show where race, parentage, class, income, social status, or anything other than GCSE results and twin zygosity, is mentioned in the paper. Apart, of course, from the reasonable inference that identical twins have the same father.   
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Pecos_Bill on 02/09/2015 08:30:20
I repeat.

This study was done two years ago and appears here immediately after the Tory government took power. Why the delay if not the Tory desire to return to grammar schools and selection at the age of 11?

This appeared last May in The Guardian...

Grammar schools: a Tory rightwinger’s dream; everyone else’s nightmare [1.]

So spare us that tap dance about the objectivity of these "researchers".

Instead  What Quid Pro Quo skulldoggery did the Tory party make to fund this vile perversion of science?


Or was the British Research council suddenly tired of funding actual medical research on stuff like Cancer and Diabetes so they suddenly decided to walk on the wild side?

Sounds good to me, but i only got born yesterday. Readers, how does it sound to you?

[1.] http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/may/11/grammar-schools-tory-rightwinger-selection

PS: I rant when I see rich old white [expletive deleted] trying to misuse science as a pretext to deny 11 year old children a fair shot at an education. What, Sir, makes you rant?
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Pecos_Bill on 03/09/2015 22:19:16
I was informed when tried to  log  on here earlier today, that I had been banned permanently from all forums for "violating the rules".

I don't know why I am able to post this now but it may have something to do with an email I sent to a reporter at "The Guardian".

I must resolve in the future not to suggest that "The naked scientist" is subject to political pressure in what it presents or allows spoken here. In other words beware of dirty work at the crossroads of science.

How fair was it to gag me and then let these people continue to take pot shots? The thing speaks for itself. Steady the buffs.

Now then, a real scientific paper includes a mention of prior research. Plomin's paper fails to do that.

Res ipsit loquitur.

At the moment I am on iTunes listening to "This week in Science" podcast. As far as I know they are not mouthpieces for any political faction
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Pecos_Bill on 04/09/2015 07:35:57
I was abruptly struck off with no prior warning after I accused this forum of being a dupe....

He who speaks the truth must have one foot in the stirrup.
-Arab Proverb

Please keep it civil - mod
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Pecos_Bill on 05/09/2015 17:55:11
When I said that this whole matter was the work of a faction of the Tory party, I was immediately banished and my remark scrubbed. That is a material fact for anybody who hasn't swallowed the naked scientist "blue pill".

In my opinion this forum is under the control of British politics.


You are entitled to your opinion, but do try to ration any insults to a maximum of 1 per forum reader... mod
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Pecos_Bill on 08/09/2015 18:13:52
Until 2015 the BBC which runs this show could eliminate me (like a Trotsky) for blowing the whistle on the political motivation behind this thread.

That was then this is now. When they tried that, I was only slightly impaired and vanished into the cyber tall grass from which I now emerge to proclaim again...

Please don't re-post ad-hominem which has already been deleted.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Bored chemist on 08/09/2015 19:52:22
Quote from: Pecos_Bill on 08/09/2015 18:13:52
Until 2015 the BBC which runs this show

No it doesn't.
Please make some attempt to get the facts right.
Also, if you plan to stay, why not join in the spirit of the site and actually engage in debate?
Why not actually respond sensibly to the points that have been put to you?
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: evan_au on 09/09/2015 13:28:32
These did not quite move over:
Quote from: Pecos_Bill
Here is what happens to those who question the impartiality of the naked scientists because of political influence.


The Naked Scientists Forum
An Error Has Occurred!
Sorry Pecos_Bill, you are banned from using this forum!
spam "jammer" devices
This ban is not set to expire.
Back
SMF 2.0.8 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
Modify message

Quote from: Pecos_Bill
Until 2015 the BBC which runs this show could eliminate me (like a Trotsky) for blowing the whistle on the political motivation behind this thread.

That was then this is now. When they tried that old crap, I was only slightly impaired and vanished into the cyber tall grass from which I now emerge to proclaim again...

Quote from: alavcalverd
Being something of a Trot myself, I would be extremely grateful if you could point out the parts of the paper to which you object. I might even be tempted to agree with you, but I cannot accept your hypothesis (whatever it may be) in the absence of evidence.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: evan_au on 09/09/2015 22:10:48
Pondering how we can objectively evaluate an hypothesis of political influence on The Naked Scientists*, I think we should define the scope of what we are discussing.

The Naked Scientists could be:
Perhaps the next step is to consider structure and content?

*Unfortunately, "Objective Politics" is an oxymoron.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: jeffreyH on 09/09/2015 23:09:03
Attacking a science forum that allows members more leeway than any other I have encountered is nonsensical. The members are far more patient than elsewhere and genuinely try to help amateurs understand the sciences. Even when they are so badly misinformed. Perhaps it is because it is so much easier to do in this type of environment. It gets so boring after a while.  Pecos_bill, reflect a while. Chill. You may find that people warm to you.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: evan_au on 10/09/2015 13:18:38
Looking at the audio media, a scan through my favorite podcast player and the website (http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/podcasts/) reveals the following regular podcasts that could be considered "Naked Scientists" content:

Plus some older ones:

The bulk of these broadcasts consist of interviews with experts in some area, usually associated with a science news story, or a published paper. Since the Naked Scientists are headquartered near Cambridge UK, many of the interviewees are resident in the UK, or are visiting the UK.

Naturally, radio broadcasts must meet the broadcast regulations of the nation (eg avoiding libel, inciting hatred, etc). Regulations governing social media and discussion forums are not so well established internationally, but the same general goals are applied; in this case, the content comes from the public.

In the case of broadcasts on BBC/RN (publicly funded), this means not promoting specific commercial products ("other brands are available"), and not overtly favoring one side of politics or another. This is carried onto the website, where blatant advertising is deleted, and repeat spammers are banned.

In the case of Talk Radio, the agenda is set by the listeners, and for eLife, the scope is set by the eLife editorial committee.

Personally, I don't see an overall political agenda from this wide variety of presenters and experts on archaeology, oceanography, neuroscience, genetics, space science or general science.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: guest39538 on 10/09/2015 18:20:44
The University of Cambridge control the naked scientist's?

It says it at the top, may I suggest that someone is a conspiracy theorist.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Franklin_Uhuru on 11/09/2015 16:59:08
This was forwarded to me anonymously from the dark web...

Quote
Sorry Pecos_Bill, you are banned from using this forum!
Ad hominem, ad nauseum
This ban is set to expire 16/09/2015 12:50:18.

The implication is that "Pecos_Bill" was disciplined for claiming that this forum is only a mouthpiece to control the opinions of the British people. If he repeats his heterodox and seditious remarks, he should know the consequences. The charge of speaking "ad hominem" is a trumped up excuse.

NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.

Properly bred British people are naturally (and genetically) endowed with the nuanced ability to call someone an imbecile in a polite fashion. When a crossbred Sottish/Chocktaw person like "Pecos_Bill" attempts this, he fails miserably.

Therefore, he was NOT expelled for claiming that the naked scientists are a front for the Tory party.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: alancalverd on 11/09/2015 18:24:01
Heterodox is welcome. Sedition is a criminal offence. Different causes, different effects.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: guest39538 on 11/09/2015 19:38:05
Quote from: Franklin_Uhuru on 11/09/2015 16:59:08
is only a mouthpiece to control the opinions of the British people.
.



read any of my posts, evidentially it is not.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Franklin_Uhuru on 11/09/2015 19:45:05
Pretending to speak contemptuously to someone  so that you can pretend your argument is unassailable -- after he has been secretly   eliminated -- is the mark of a weakling and a bully. The kind of underhanded Tory schlock you may recognize them by since the times of Churchill and Thatcher.

Or is that "ad hominem" too?

Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: alancalverd on 11/09/2015 22:57:02
I don't think Thatcher belonged to the genus homo, which is characterised by its collaborative behavior and supportive social structure.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: evan_au on 12/09/2015 01:56:11
Quote from: Pecos_Bill
What is the political reason that it has shown up here, today -- 2 years later ?
The Nature Backchat podcast (http://www.nature.com/nature/podcast/index-backchat-2014-09-15.html) provides a rarely-seen glimpse into the editorial process that goes into producing a science website & podcast - a process which is normally invisible to the public on Radio, TV, Newspaper, Government and Internet.

The last edition of Backchat was bemoaning the month of August as the "Summer Doldrums" (in the Northern Hemisphere). A time when the not-so-newsworthy stories tend to surface - but perhaps it doesn't matter because not so many people are reading science websites....

So, could this have been a "Summer Doldrums" story?
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Franklin_Uhuru on 12/09/2015 03:58:34
Those of us who have experienced the other face of this gentleman really ARE nauseated by his pose as an objective and fair person. Here we see his preposterous attempt to explain the appearance of this paper two years after the fact as being perfectly innocent.

Tell me, were all the scientists in Britain skinny-dipping (for 2 years) at Lokrum, that delightful little island, next to Dubrovnik and just now returned? Has mad cow disease laid all of Cambridge out? Is it tomorrow or just the end of time?

So Mr. Evan_au, Sir, since you claim to be a fair moderator, tell the people why you deleted what Pecos_Bill said as "tangential" and then had him banished for being "nauseating". What did he say that frightened you so badly that you would not let it be seen?

Was it not the truth, Mister? Or have you another preposterous excuse to peddle here? Would you like something to settle your stomach?
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: alancalverd on 12/09/2015 09:39:30
Who controls the Naked Scientists?

Lots of Ko-Ko's, at least one of whom objects to being called a Pooh-Bah by people who don't read the book.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: evan_au on 12/09/2015 11:27:42
Quote from: Pecos_Bill
this whole matter was the work of a faction of the Tory party...In my opinion this forum is under the control of British politics.

Having a look at the subject matter of the Naked Scientists podcast, we have the following headlines/themes (taken from the transcripts on the website).

8th Sep: Hands-on, Minds Open: The Changing Face of Science
1st Sep: Pluto, at Long Last...
23rd Aug: Truth and Beauty: The Hidden World of Symmetry
18th Aug: The Yuck Factor: Why we find things disgusting
11th Aug: Getting to grips with graphene
4th Aug: Meet Your Sex Hormones

Interestingly, the interview with Robert Plomin doesn't appear in the Naked Scientist podcast, even though I went back 6 weeks in an effort to find it.

I am not familiar with British politics (I've only been there about 6 weeks in my life, and I was sightseeing - not paying any attention to local politics). I can't tell if any of the above stories are a major platform of the Torey party (or if any of them are a major policy of the Labor party either). But I doubt that British politicians care very much about whether "Pluto is still called a planet", or any of the stories above. (Maybe one side could claim to be more proactive on limiting plastic in seabirds?)

A local could confirm for me, but I don't see any evidence for the Naked Scientists to be under the control of British political parties.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Franklin_Uhuru on 12/09/2015 12:20:48
In my callow youth, defending the Frontiers of Freedom, I took a correspondence course in Psychological warfare from the US Army Special Warfare School at Fort Bragg.

Effective PsyWar with deceptive "gray" propaganda targeted at "opinion formers" ( like you, folks ) reguires about 99% innocent content to 1% weaponized "lnformation" in order to maintain enough credibility to deceive the goats.

After Evan_au had me eliminated for accusing a  Tory party faction of subverting the naked scientists forum with 2 year old pseudo scientific schlock to promote a return to "selection" in British schools, the penny dropped. I recognized the drill.

In PsyWar terms I was terminated with prejudice to preserve credibility among the goats --and salvage the mission.

Unfortunately (for them) in 2015 it is harder to shut up a dissenting voice. I have survived two attempts -- so far.

Times have changed, Bwana.
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: alancalverd on 12/09/2015 14:02:25
Please decide who you are before using the first person singular.

It is a sine qua non of PsyWar that you are certain of your own identity and objectives, even if these are not apparent to your enemy, otherwise you can end up shooting yourself in the foot.

Knowing that identical twins are more alike than fraternal twins cannot lead, either logicaly or via the perverted mind of a politician, to the reintroduction of selective state schools. Selection  in the state system was based entirely on examination results at age 11.

I suspect you have fallen into the trap of believing that we speak the same language. In the UK a "public" school is not owned or operated by the state but is a private institution that can select on any basis it wishes - rather like the Ivy League, which reserves places for the offspring of generous alumni. Money and contacts will always buy privilege, even in communist China and socialist California. But they can't buy GCSE results: the marking is anonymous.   
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: Franklin_Uhuru on 12/09/2015 17:30:41
As you, yourself,  well know  , Bwana, your thought police have made it impossible for Pecos_Bill to appear here in his own good write. They are also scratching their heads at how I manage to get in here.

Your supercilious, henchman's remark is the true face of Britain that so much of the rest of the world has come to know.

And now that I have dealt with your attempt to run interference for him, I would like to repeat the question that I asked, that little ripper, Mr. Evan_au.

Mr. Evan_au, Sir !  Have you now stopped beating your chest describing your many virtues to us?

Will you now tell us what Pecos_Bill said that caused you to have him summarily eliminated (twice) ----- if you weren't frightened that others, here, might believe him?

*****************

Now readers, here is a quote by Randy Newman for all you people who think this forum is run by the love children of Santy Claus and the virgin queen.

"Now I don't want to be too rough
And I don't want to be too mean
You're right - This world is awful tough
I know exactly what you mean
But I want you to know
Exactly how I feel
And to tell you the truth
Right now I feel like going
I feel like going
I feel like going

Baa !

Baa Mr. Sheep!

Careful, you're walking all over your own self now
Walk on, Mr. Sheep
Walk on, Mr. Sheep
Walk on, Mr. Sheep
Walk on ! " [1.]

[1.]
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: evan_au on 16/09/2015 11:50:40
Another data point in this discussion: The latest Naked Scientists theme for 15th September is the science of Climate Change, a topic which tends to be raised by the left of politics, and ridiculed by the right of polictics (in Western countries).
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: alancalverd on 16/09/2015 12:29:41
I think it is ridiculed, at least in its fashionable "all due to anthropogenic carbon dioxide" form,  by anyone with a hint of scientific integrity.

I remain, sir,

Your ex trade union officer, former CND chairman, Committee of 100 supporter, life member of the Labour Party, Special Branch suspect (though I think they have given up monitoring my phone calls - pity, because it scared the bejabers out of nuisance callers) and all-round leftie

Alan 
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: evan_au on 18/09/2015 12:57:10
Quote from: Pecos_Bill
"Behavioral genetics" a science.... or Tory propaganda ?
Trying to objectively test Bill's hypothesis that the Naked Scientist forum is a mouthpiece for Tory propaganda, I conducted a straw poll of the Naked Scientists staff.

I didn't get a big enough sample of content originators, presenters, and moderators on other social media, but I did get 4 responses from people who are currently involved in moderating the Forum content.

Naked Scientists Forum Moderation (4 responses)
   Nationality: 2 UK, 1 US, 1 Australian
   Political Leaning: 1 Left wing-socialist, 2 Moderate, 1 Right wing-free market

Notes:
- Everyone is entitled to their own political views. This political leaning indicator is just one of many possible political axes in different countries.

Since the spread of political views here is quite wide, and the Tory party has minimal impact outside of the UK, I can say with Tory, "This Myth is Busted".
Title: Re: Who controls the Naked Scientists?
Post by: jeffreyH on 18/09/2015 13:16:41
Quote from: evan_au on 18/09/2015 12:57:10
Quote from: Pecos_Bill
"Behavioral genetics" a science.... or Tory propaganda ?
Trying to objectively test Bill's hypothesis that the Naked Scientist forum is a mouthpiece for Tory propaganda, I conducted a straw poll of the Naked Scientists staff.

I didn't get a big enough sample of content originators, presenters, and moderators on other social media, but I did get 4 responses from people who are currently involved in moderating the Forum content.

Naked Scientists Forum Moderation (4 responses)
   Nationality: 2 UK, 1 US, 1 Australian
   Political Leaning: 1 Left wing-socialist, 2 Moderate, 1 Right wing-free market

Notes:
- Everyone is entitled to their own political views. This political leaning indicator is just one of many possible political axes in different countries.

Since the spread of political views here is quite wide, and the Tory party has minimal impact outside of the UK, I can say with Tory, "This Myth is Busted".

Political persuasion is a product of many factors. Including upbringing, social status, the influence of peers and whim. Since the media, especially television has played a larger and larger role in politics it is now considered a step in career progression to be an MP. An even bigger step is made by becoming the PM. It hardly matters what the policies are. Apart from those that suit vested interests. This is also an aid to career progression once the stepping stone of political office comes to an end. So it matters not a jot what your political persuasion is. I can't see how controlling a science forum is going to progress the career of any politician. However, raising the level of VAT to weed out the smaller fish in the competitive business pond, does.