Naked Science Forum

Non Life Sciences => Physics, Astronomy & Cosmology => Topic started by: Brad Watson on 03/12/2016 17:34:43

Title: Does this Universe have a Boundary/Event Horizon?
Post by: Brad Watson on 03/12/2016 17:34:43
I make a connection between the two singularities of the Big Bang/Bit Bang and supermassive black holes. It appears that a supermassive black hole in another universe caused a supermassive white hole as the beginning of the creation of this Universe. That SBH has an event horizon that this Universe would have to be contained within, therefore this Universe must have a boundary/event horizon. Thoughts? 
Title: Re: Does this Universe have a Boundary/Event Horizon?
Post by: Bill S on 06/12/2016 14:59:43
Brad, I think you have to be clear what you mean by a singularity,  before you can make a comparison between two.
Title: Re: Does this Universe have a Boundary/Event Horizon?
Post by: Brad Watson on 06/12/2016 16:48:04
Bill, most scientists regard the Big Bang(/Bit Bang) and black holes singularities and their definition of 'singularity' is what I'm using. Do I need to copy-and-paste that definition?
Title: Re: Does this Universe have a Boundary/Event Horizon?
Post by: evan_au on 06/12/2016 19:28:44
Quote from: Brad Watson
this Universe must have a boundary/event horizon
Yes, I think that is likely.
But due to the extreme curvature of space in a black hole (or a universe), I don't think you will ever be able to find your way to that event horizon.
So if you set out on a long journey, you may find yourself back at your starting point without ever running into a physical boundary.
Just like Magellan did when he sailed around the Earth without hitting a physical boundary, due to the extreme curvature of the Earth.

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It appears that a supermassive black hole in another universe caused a supermassive white hole as the beginning of the creation of this Universe.
Yes, that is one hypothesis, out of many competing hypotheses.
But it's more an analogy with what we think happens in our universe, rather than an observation/appearance.
I am not sure how hypotheses can compete effectively without much observational data to go on...

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse#Black-hole_cosmology
Title: Re: Does this Universe have a Boundary/Event Horizon?
Post by: Bill S on 06/12/2016 19:55:27
No need for that,  but consider,  Dr Christopher Baird says: "In the real Universe,  no black holes contain singularities.....When scientists talk about black hole singularities they are talking about the errors that appear in our current theories and not about objects that actually exist."

This suggests that not all scientists seriously consider time and space to be infinitely compressed. I thought it wise to find out if you actually thought that space was infinitely curved in a physical sense,  or if you were talking about an approximation.
Title: Re: Does this Universe have a Boundary/Event Horizon?
Post by: Brad Watson on 13/12/2016 14:22:03
Quote from: Brad Watson
this Universe must have a boundary/event horizon
Yes, I think that is likely. But due to the extreme curvature of space in a black hole (or a universe), I don't think you will ever be able to find your way to that event horizon.
We agree.
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It appears that a supermassive black hole in another universe caused a supermassive white hole as the beginning of the Creation of this Universe.
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Yes, that is one hypothesis, out of many competing hypotheses. But it's more an analogy with what we think happens in our universe, rather than an observation/appearance. I am not sure how hypotheses can compete effectively without much observational data to go on...

It's a hypothesis that is the simplest explanation of infinte space and time. The Big Bang/Bit Bang seen as a supermassive white hole is no "analogy". 

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse#Black-hole_cosmology
Title: Re: Does this Universe have a Boundary/Event Horizon?
Post by: Brad Watson on 15/12/2016 03:57:35
Dr Christopher Baird says
Who's he?
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"In the real Universe, no black holes contain singularities... When scientists talk about black hole singularities they are talking about the errors that appear in our current theories and not about objects that actually exist."
That's false. Baird certainly is entitled to his opinion, but he is in no place to judge other scientists when they, "Talk about black hole singularities".
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This suggests that not all scientists seriously consider time and space to be infinitely compressed. I thought it wise to find out if you actually thought that space was infinitely curved in a physical sense,  or if you were talking about an approximation.
Space and time are not infinite in this Universe. The Big Bang/Bit Bang 13.8 billion years ago is proof of a beginning of spacetime, therefore there's no infinity in our past in THIS Universe. There is a HUGE number of universes within The Conglomerate (multiverse), but that's also a HUGE finite number at any given time.
Title: Re: Does this Universe have a Boundary/Event Horizon?
Post by: yor_on on 15/12/2016 14:38:39
Don't know, but as always I have a few ideas :) Some weirder than others naturally. If you presume that the universe is 'infinite', as I do, then those super-massive black holes may have to do with how the universe is 'constructed'. We build it 'locally', that's what a infinite universe tells you, 'isotropically and homogeneously'. A 'Big Bang' is also a local definition from that point of view, the universe being the 'exact same' everywhere you stand looking out at it.

That goes for whatever laws we trust in too, they are the same 'everywhere'. And then the question becomes what we mean by 'infinite'. Do we mean new unique cultures as far as we can go? Then that would be a sign of a real infinity, excluding the 'time' it would take us getting from here to there. Because time is change, and change makes it real hard to know if you've been there before, in this isotropic homogeneous universe, looking the same everywhere.
Title: Re: Does this Universe have a Boundary/Event Horizon?
Post by: yor_on on 16/12/2016 12:02:24
On the other tentacle, never heard about anyone proving a 'white hole' inside our universe. What a 'white hole' becomes is a symmetry to a black one, and as the universe seems to like symmetries maybe they exist. Otherwise we might have to find another way of describing what a symmetry to Black hole might be.
Title: Re: Does this Universe have a Boundary/Event Horizon?
Post by: Brad Watson on 16/12/2016 16:51:37
If you presume that the universe is 'infinite', as I do
I do not. 'Infinite' referring to space and time and referring to this Universe would mean that there would be an endless continuum. Recognizing the Big Bang/Bit Bang 13.8 billion years ago as the beginning point means this Universe is not infinite. If you belief that there is no end to this Universe, then you believe that it is 'perpetual'.

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then those supermassive black holes may have to do with how the universe is 'constructed'. We build it 'locally', that's what a infinite universe tells you, 'isotropically and homogeneously'. A 'Big Bang' is also a local definition from that point of view, the universe being the 'exact same' everywhere you stand looking out at it.
Again, since a Big Bang/Bit Bang - a supermassive white hole - is required for the creation of a universe, there is no such thing as an 'infinite universe'.

This Universe was created when a supermassive black hole in another universe exploded with energy and information. This Universe is one of quadrillions within 'The Conglomerate of Universes' (multiverse). The Conglomerate appears to be infinite and eternal.