[vdblnkr34]

How much companies pay to store their waste?

[evan_au]

How much companies pay to store their waste?

As little as possible.
- Anything dumped into the air or rivers is essentially "free" to the dumper
- Which is why legislators need to apply pressure to avoid dangerous dumping by setting legal limits, testing for compliance and applying fines for violators.

Unfortunately, the next lowest-cost option is to tender for someone to take it away:
- Frequently, the lowest-cost tenderer will win the contract
- And they achieve their low cost by taking the waste somewhere which has looser rules
- And/or bribing officials to look the other way
- And/or getting President T.Rump to wind back the powers of the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) so that it no longer sets or enforces rules about pollution.

[cleanair (OP)]

It is noteworthy that there has been almost no media attention for the nuclear waste dump practices in Somalia's oceans. The issue came to light in the 2005 tsunami that caused hundreds of barrels with nuclear waste to wash up on the beach.


nuclear-waste-washed-ashore-somalia.jpeg (113.07 kB . 602x452 - viewed 2557 times)

In one of the most major articles on the case (+/- #1 in Google among just a few), on 'expertsure.com', it is indicated that the nuclear water dump by Japan in 2023 receives a lot of attention while until now, the nuclear waste dump in Somalia has received almost no attention while the severity of the dumped nuclear waste may be much more significant.

Yesterday the BBC reported that radiation levels at the crippled Fukushima reactor site are ten million times normal levels. As the oceans near the damaged nuclear plant are becoming contaminated with increasing amounts of nuclear radiation, concerns are growing about how much radioactive poison the planet’s seas can withstand.

However, although it is not receiving anywhere near as much attention as the unfolding disaster in Japan, the massive amounts of illegally dumped radioactive nuclear waste that are still being thrown into Somalia’s oceans potentially could prove to be an even more deadly catastrophe.

https://www.expertsure.com/2011/03/27/more-illegally-dumped-radioactive-waste-found-on-somalias-coast/


In 2008, pirates in Somalia started to hijack ships in the region, hijacking ever more prolific targets, including arms ships, oil tankers and cruise liners, and extracting huge ransoms from their owners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_attacked_by_Somali_pirates_in_2008

In Western media, the pirates were presented as savages without mentioning a motive related to toxic waste dumping in Somalia's oceans.

Example in The Guardian (not a single mention of 'toxic waste dumping'):

(2008) How savage Somali pirates reign on the world's high seas
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/apr/27/somalia1

According to some sources however, the pirates acted with a motive related to toxic waste dumping in Somalia's oceans by 🇪🇺 European companies.

(2009) Somalia used as toxic dumping ground
National governments and NGOs decried their actions as an affront to international maritime law, but few examined the pirates’ claim that a far greater crime continues in Somalia: the illegal dumping of toxic waste.
https://theecologist.org/2009/mar/01/somalia-used-toxic-dumping-ground

'Toxic waste' behind Somali piracy
Somali pirates have accused European firms of dumping toxic waste off the Somali coast and are demanding an $8m ransom for the return of a Ukrainian ship they captured, saying the money will go towards cleaning up the waste...
https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/toxic-waste-behind-somali-piracy/

[cleanair (OP)]

How much companies pay to store their waste?

As little as possible.
- Anything dumped into the air or rivers is essentially "free" to the dumper
- Which is why legislators need to apply pressure to avoid dangerous dumping by setting legal limits, testing for compliance and applying fines for violators.

Unfortunately, the next lowest-cost option is to tender for someone to take it away:
- Frequently, the lowest-cost tenderer will win the contract
- And they achieve their low cost by taking the waste somewhere which has looser rules
- And/or bribing officials to look the other way
- And/or getting President T.Rump to wind back the powers of the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) so that it no longer sets or enforces rules about pollution.

Is a solution possible on a global scale? And on what time scale?

Some scientists argue that Nature on Earth could collapse within decades.

(2020) Scientists: Multiple eco-crises could trigger a ‘systemic collapse’
Overlapping environmental crises could tip the planet into “global systemic collapse,” more than 200 top scientists warned.
Sources:
https://phys.org/news/2020-02-multiple-eco-crises-trigger-collapse-scientists.html
https://phys.org/news/2020-02-bumble-bees-extinct-climate-chaos.html

(2021) UN chief calls for bold action to end ‘suicidal war with nature’
“We are losing our suicidal war against nature. An ecosystem collapse is looming. Within decades, millions of animal species can become extinct, resulting in a collapse of Nature on Earth.”
Source: https://news.un.org/en/story/2021/10/1102672


sea-bird.png (24.14 kB . 150x109 - viewed 1281 times)

Seabirds Extinct Within Decades
A recent study found a 67 percent decline in seabird populations between 1950 and 2010. “Essentially seabirds are going extinct,” says Wilcox. “Within decades.”
Sources: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0129342
https://www.ecowatch.com/seabirds-plastic-pollution-2609353767.html

In the past decades, 75 percent of all insects have died. Within decades, a tipping point could be reached beyond which a collapse of Nature becomes inevitable.

(2021) The insect apocalypse: ‘Our world will grind to a halt without them’
Insects have declined by 75% in the past 50 years – and the consequences may soon be catastrophic.
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/25/the-insect-apocalypse-our-world-will-grind-to-a-halt-without-them


rainforest-gone-by-2050.png (14.13 kB . 205x160 - viewed 1284 times)

(2020) Ecosystems the Size of the Amazon Rainforest Could Collapse Within Decades
One-fifth of the jungle is to be burned in the coming years. “I’m not getting into this nonsense of defending land for the Indians,” the president said. A Brazilian general who last year served on the board of Canadian mining giant Belo Sun heads Brazil’s federal agency for indigenous peoples.
Sources:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00508-4
https://gizmodo.com/ecosystems-the-size-of-the-amazon-rainforest-could-coll-1842241699
https://news.mongabay.com/2020/01/impending-amazon-tipping-point-puts-biome-and-world-at-risk-scientists-warn/
https://www.ecowatch.com/indigenous-people-amazon-2645327056.html

[evan_au]

radiation levels at the crippled Fukushima reactor site are ten million times normal levels

I assume that this is measured inside the destroyed reactor building, rather than outside it?

Without wanting to minimize the mess that is Fukishima (2011), Chernobyl (1986) was worse in terms of the amount of radiation released into the atmosphere.
- A graphite moderator which catches fire is very hard to contain
- But so is a water moderator that breaks down, releasing Hydrogen, which then explodes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_civilian_nuclear_accidents

[vdblnkr34]

About Chernobyl (1986)  actually was nothing at all. It was a mistake made during fire extinguishing. They pour lot of water into hot burning reactor that evaporate it all with the rest of the materials in it and than winds did the rest. If no one would put water into reactor, nothing would happen. But, back in the 1986 they didn't know that and decided to cool it down with a water. Real explosion made minor damages, mostly destroyed walls and insulations..

[chiralSPO]

About Chernobyl (1986)  actually was nothing at all. It was a mistake made during fire extinguishing. They pour lot of water into hot burning reactor that evaporate it all with the rest of the materials in it and than winds did the rest. If no one would put water into reactor, nothing would happen. But, back in the 1986 they didn't know that and decided to cool it down with a water. Real explosion made minor damages, mostly destroyed walls and insulations..

The accident at Chernobyl was not "nothing at all". True, a melt-down at a nuclear plant is NOT the same as a nuclear bomb exploding, but the explosion at Chernobyl was due to a rapid release of nuclear energy. The fire was caused by the explosion, not the other way around. And the fact that there is still a sizable region around the plant that is closed off due to lingering contamination speaks to the magnitude of the problem.

http://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/safety-and-security/safety-of-plants/chernobyl-accident.aspx
https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/chernobyl-bg.html

[Colin2B]

The accident at Chernobyl was not "nothing at all". ...........  there is still a sizable region around the plant that is closed off due to lingering contamination speaks to the magnitude of the problem.

Six days after the explosion the radioactive plume drifted over UK uplands and the fallout resulted in regular testing and restrictions on the sale of livestock which lasted until 2012.

[gerardseal]

That's just terrible. When people realize that they harm themselves by their actions in the first place.

[vdblnkr34]

Toxic waste should be stored on the moon.

SpaceX would be happy to launch your payload into Low-Earth Orbit for a mere $2500/kilogram.
- It will cost at least 100 times as much to safely reach the Moon.
- Of course, space launches are a risky business, and no-one wants a canister of nuclear waste dumped onto their country from a failed launch
- So hopefully, no nation would approve toxic waste for launch into space!

For $250,000 per kilogram, it make sense to create less waste, or recycle it more efficiently, or store it more safely on Earth.
- Finland is the first country in the world to complete an underground nuclear waste storage facility
- It is still undergoing commissioning tests
- It is due to start storing real nuclear waste in 2023.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onkalo_spent_nuclear_fuel_repository

If to equip helium balloon with a heater it should reach the moon. Right?

[Colin2B]

If to equip helium balloon with a heater it should reach the moon. Right?

Ha ha, very funny 

[evan_au]

If to equip helium balloon with a heater it should reach the moon. Right?

That makes about as much sense as the 17th century scientist Charles Morton who thought birds migrated to the Moon for the winter.
Both hypotheses fail because our atmosphere extends less than 1% of the way to the Moon.
https://www.wired.com/2014/10/fantastically-wrong-scientist-thought-birds-migrate-moon/

[vdblnkr34]

Helium balloon with heater can go up to 25km above the ground. Did anyone try to do more? I dont think so.

[Bored chemist]

Helium balloon with heater can go up to 25km above the ground. Did anyone try to do more? I dont think so.

You really are serious, aren't you?
What holds a balloon up?

[vdblnkr34]

No idea. Hot balloon going up. So I assume that hot balloon filled with helium gas might reach the moon. There is a helium gas on the moon, someone told me it comes there from earth. If its so, should work.

[Bored chemist]

No idea.

Maybe you should check.

[Colin2B]

Hot balloon going up. So I assume that hot balloon filled with helium gas might reach the moon.

Not so. Might be worth learning some basic physics