Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: smart on 01/03/2018 23:54:15
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I am putting my theory and notes on modern psychoenergetics research for experimental modification of human behavior here: https://www.isotoperesearch.ca/wiki/Psychoenergetics
I am open to smart questions and technical comments about the use of ultrasonic waves in the 50-60 kHz range to elicit a auditory response. In specific, I would like to know how precisely full-duplex and bidirectional neural activation of the auditory cortex of the brain can be stimulated or blocked via short ultrasonic waves (<0.3s) resonance.
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You do not need to invoke the direct action of ultrasonic sound on neurons to explain activation of the auditory cortex. It is quite possible to generate audible frequencies through nonlinear interactions of intense ultrasonic frequencies. It is even possible to produce ultrasonic frequencies in such a way as to create specific patterns that are only audible in specific locations. I have a device capable of taking any audio input via RCA connection and converting it into a form projectable from an "audio spotlight" ( https://www.holosonics.com/technology/ )
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You do not need to invoke the direct action of ultrasonic sound on neurons to explain activation of the auditory cortex. It is quite possible to generate audible frequencies through nonlinear interactions of intense ultrasonic frequencies. It is even possible to produce ultrasonic frequencies in such a way as to create specific patterns that are only audible in specific locations. I have a device capable of taking any audio input via RCA connection and converting it into a form projectable from an "audio spotlight" ( https://www.holosonics.com/technology/ )
@chiralSPO , do you know what is acoustic resonance?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_resonance
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What is the effects of ultrasonic focalisation and resonance on serotonergic neurons?
tk
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What is the effects of ultrasonic focalisation and resonance on serotonergic neurons?
tk
According to any evidence I'm aware of , there is no effect. "of ultrasonic focalisation and resonance on serotonergic neurons"
Do you have any evidence to the contrary, or is it just some dross you made up?
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According to any evidence I'm aware of , there is no effect. "of ultrasonic focalisation and resonance on serotonergic neurons"
Do you have any evidence to the contrary, or is it just some dross you made up?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26221830
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26221830
Did you even read the abstract (quoted below) for the paper you are citing to support these wacky claims?
Serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine, 5-HT) is an important modulatory neurotransmitter and functions as a key neurodevelopmental signal in the mammalian brain. 5-HT plays a prominent role in regulating various types of psychological processes and functions, including mood and emotion, particularly anxiety, but also in regulating social behavior. Consequently, the 5-HT system is implicated in various neuropsychiatric disorders, such as anxiety disorders and depression or autism spectrum disorders (ASD), with selective 5-HT reuptake inhibitors being the frontline medication. Mice and rats perceive and emit ultrasonic vocalizations (USV). It is widely believed that the various distinct USV types reflect the animal's affective state, such as anxiety or pleasure. Furthermore, they serve communicative functions, for instance, as alarm calls or social contact calls. Manipulations targeting the 5-HT system alter affective ultrasonic communication in rodents throughout life, probably because of its important role in regulating anxiety and social behavior. Ample evidence indicates the involvement of the 5-HT system in modulating isolation-induced USV in pups. Later in life, the 5-HT system plays a strong modulatory role in the emission of aversive 22-kHz USV in rats. So far, little is known about the role of 5-HT in the production of interaction-induced USV in mice and appetitive 50-kHz USV in rats, although recent findings also suggest a modulatory effect of the 5-HT system. Assessment of rodent USV is a valuable method to investigate mood and emotion, and to enhance our understanding of, and develop novel pharmacological therapies for neuropsychiatric disorders, such as anxiety disorders and depression or ASD.
Perhaps all the big words are confusing. If I may translate, the abstract says:
1) Serotonin pathways are important in mammal brains
2) Mice and rats communicate using frequencies that we cannot hear, but can measure
3) They appear to "scream" at particular characteristic frequencies when in stressful situations
4) If we change the serotonin pathways in certain ways, they no longer "scream" when put into stressful situations
5) This suggests that these particular pathways are important for the processing of stress
No where is there any suggestion of any direct influence of ultrasound on neurons. The mice talk to each other in ultrasound. Changes in the neurons change how they talk to each other--ie the causation is also opposite to what you are claiming--the changed neurons cause changes in behavior of the mice, as determined by detections of the ultrasonic frequencies generated by the mice!
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Manipulations targeting the 5-HT system alter affective ultrasonic communication in rodents throughout life, probably because of its important role in regulating anxiety and social behavior.
Full-duplex, bidirectional ultrasonic signals in the 50-60 kHz range may trigger play-fighting and real fighting (aggressivity) in young people using serotonergic drugs. (antidepressants)
I suspect the focalisation and resonance of ultrasounds may elicit a strong serotonin reuptake through a unknown mecanism.
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Full-duplex, bidirectional ultrasonic signals in the 50-60 kHz range may trigger play-fighting and real fighting (aggressivity) in young people
do you know what is acoustic resonance?
It is a law of acoustic resonance (known as long ago as Pythagoras, in centuries BC) that short strings vibrate at a higher pitch than long strings (all things being equal).
- The vocal cords of a mouse are very short compared to the vocal cords of a human, so their vocalisations are at much higher frequencies.
- The hairs of a mouse cochlea are very short compared to the hairs of a human cochlea, so their hearing is more sensitive to much higher frequencies.
- ie, mouse ears and vocal cords are optimised for mice to communicate with each other around 50kHz
- while human ears and vocal cords are optimised for humans to communicate with each other between 0.3 and 5kHz
- Noise at normal levels in the 50kHz range will not be picked up by human children - although we can hear mice "squeaking", which are at the low-frequency end of the mouse vocal range.
In social animals ranging from mouse to man, vocal communications affect emotional state, hormone levels and behavior (and, in turn, are affected by these other things).
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According to any evidence I'm aware of , there is no effect. "of ultrasonic focalisation and resonance on serotonergic neurons"
Do you have any evidence to the contrary, or is it just some dross you made up?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26221830
In summary, there is no evidence, and you made it up.
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It is a law of acoustic resonance (known as long ago as Pythagoras, in centuries BC) that short strings vibrate at a higher pitch than long strings (all things being equal).
- The vocal cords of a mouse are very short compared to the vocal cords of a human, so their vocalisations are at much higher frequencies.
- The hairs of a mouse cochlea are very short compared to the hairs of a human cochlea, so their hearing is more sensitive to much higher frequencies.
- ie, mouse ears and vocal cords are optimised for mice to communicate with each other around 50kHz
- while human ears and vocal cords are optimised for humans to communicate with each other between 0.3 and 5kHz
- Noise at normal levels in the 50kHz range will not be picked up by human children - although we can hear mice "squeaking", which are at the low-frequency end of the mouse vocal range.
In social animals ranging from mouse to man, vocal communications affect emotional state, hormone levels and behavior (and, in turn, are affected by these other things).
It turns out that focalised ultrasonic signals in the 50-60 kHz range may inhibit vasopressin release and facilitate prosocial behavior in male juvenile rats: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25800147
" Moreover, male LAB and HAB rats express deficits in social approach towards conspecifics, together with high and/or abnormal forms of aggression when confronted with harmless opponents, possibly due to a lack of social communication skills."
Therefore, could young (male) people become tricked into aggressive behavior when not exposed specifically to short 50 kHz signals?
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It turns out that focalised ultrasonic signals in the 50-60 kHz range may inhibit vasopressin release and facilitate prosocial behavior in male juvenile rats:
Rats can hear 50KHz ultrasound.
Therefore, could young (male) people become tricked into aggressive behavior when not exposed specifically to short 50 kHz signals?
No, because people can't hear 50KHz ultrasound.