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Photons attract other photons gravitationally. This is not something I just made up. It is true in the Lorentz relativity predictions; it is true in the theory of special theory of relativity; it is true in the General Theory of Relativity; it is true in Quantum Theory, and it is true in Quantum Electrodynamics theory.So it is part of classical theories and it is a part of modern theories. Things would be very troubling if this were not so. We know, for example, that photons trapped in a mirrored box add massiveness to the box. The extra mass must have a corresponding increase in gravity. If it did not, the maths would be broken.We can take it even further. Space debris must absorb light. When it does, it becomes more massive according to all currently accepted theories. This additional mass carries with it additional gravitational attraction.
Photons attract other photons gravitationally.
Do photons have mass? And what's the mass of one photon? Please, support your possible argument wiht serious references.
Hey... It's the full moon.
Why do you say photons trapped in a mirrored box are virtual photons. Photons are real changes in electric and magnetic potential. It is when a photon's potential is realized that QM theory brings in a virtual photon to affect the change.Real electromagnetic waves trapped in a local area by any method are mass. Notice that I didn't say they have mass.
Quote from: Vern on 08/09/2009 18:54:16Why do you say photons trapped in a mirrored box are virtual photons. Photons are real changes in electric and magnetic potential. It is when a photon's potential is realized that QM theory brings in a virtual photon to affect the change.Real electromagnetic waves trapped in a local area by any method are mass. Notice that I didn't say they have mass. I said they are virtual photons considering that we have not an external operator neither a source of energy. Those photons into the closed system would need to gain energy. If the energy of one photon is obtained by cooperative interactions, one of the photons would undergo a decrease of its energy density and the other would experience the increase of its energy density. Through obtaining energy, the gravitational energy of the photon would invariably get higher in proportion to the increase of its energy density, so we would need an external operator or a source of energy into the box to make all photons into the cage have the same energy density so they can be considered having like mass. On the other hand, if gravitational energy increases, the photon would become crazy and would be jumping on the top of the field until finally it starts sliding slowly down to the vacuum band, where it would remain oscillating as any real photon. Remember that the laws of thermodynamics are homogeneous and symmetric.
Quote from: NN on 09/09/2009 22:48:28Quote from: Vern on 08/09/2009 18:54:16Why do you say photons trapped in a mirrored box are virtual photons. Photons are real changes in electric and magnetic potential. It is when a photon's potential is realized that QM theory brings in a virtual photon to affect the change.Real electromagnetic waves trapped in a local area by any method are mass. Notice that I didn't say they have mass. I said they are virtual photons considering that we have not an external operator neither a source of energy. Those photons into the closed system would need to gain energy. If the energy of one photon is obtained by cooperative interactions, one of the photons would undergo a decrease of its energy density and the other would experience the increase of its energy density. Through obtaining energy, the gravitational energy of the photon would invariably get higher in proportion to the increase of its energy density, so we would need an external operator or a source of energy into the box to make all photons into the cage have the same energy density so they can be considered having like mass. On the other hand, if gravitational energy increases, the photon would become crazy and would be jumping on the top of the field until finally it starts sliding slowly down to the vacuum band, where it would remain oscillating as any real photon. Remember that the laws of thermodynamics are homogeneous and symmetric.Maybe there is a language barrier or something, but I can find no logic in your reasoning. Photons in a mirrored box would not need outside help and would not need to be virtual photons. A virtual particle is one that exists for less time than it takes to detect it.
Gasparri, I read your theory. I think you have something to work with there and thinking in a simplistic manner is, in my opinion, always the best answer. (Occam's Law would agree). What you need to quantify the notion is a formula that works.
Wow! Please don't beat me in the head but I have consignedgravity and time to the grey box. To me gravity is a result not a force.Time is a tool to measure motion and nothing more. By discarding those abstracts, time and gravity, my view of the universe has become much clearer.