Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: amrit on 26/05/2010 12:51:19
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Here is our BLOCK UNIVERSE theory.
http://www.fqxi.org/data/forum-attachments/Block_Universe.pdf
Universe runs out of time and without time. Motion is timeless. It is not illusion as Prof. Barbour says, motion is real. We experience motion through time that is of the mind.
yours amrit
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Amrit, this paper explains your concepts much better. I will read it when I get enough time. You make a fundamental error in saying your clock in the mine will go faster. The Gravitational Potential is lower in the mine even if the force due to gravity is less. The time dilation is a function of gravitational potential and the formula you used does not take this into account. I think the clock will run slower, not faster. The formula you used will not apply inside the surface of a massive body.
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Grah
Amrit, this paper explains your concepts much better. I will read it when I get enough time. You make a fundamental error in saying your clock in the mine will go faster. The Gravitational Potential is lower in the mine even if the force due to gravity is less. The time dilation is a function of gravitational potential and the formula you used does not take this into account. I think the clock will run slower, not faster. The formula you used will not apply inside the surface of a massive body.
Graham it is so according to Newton shell theorem.....earth moving in the timeless space
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Amrit, I didn't work out the actual formula you used but, of course, the gravitational field is less and (as per Newton) will be only the field as if you were on an earth with the smaller radius because the spherical shell outside does not contribute. However, the time dilation is a function of the gravitational potential which is lower at a point several hundred feet below the surface. This was the whole point of of my describing the case at the centre of the earth to show the time dilation in a place of lower gravitational potential but essentially flat space (no field). Any light emerging to the surface from lower down will be redshifted not blueshifted. I don't believe I am making any contraversial statement here and I think this is generally accepted as a fact.
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Graham might be so as you say.....this formula gave me well known Prof. of physics.
But this is not the main point.
What is important clocks run in space only and not in time.
Universe is timeless.
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Hi Amrit,
I'm moving this post to new theories since it's not really a question about physics, but rather a post proposing a new theory.
Cheers,
JP (Moderator)
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Thanks
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Amrit, getting the wrong formula for gravitational time dilation certainly is important if you are planning experiments to measure it. It also does not speak well of your understanding of the subject (or that of your Professor or whoever peer reviewed the paper).
I have not been arguing against your time concept, which is not without merit. As Farsight mentions, it is not dissimilar from his own view I think. However your conclusions regarding gravitational time dilation are wrong and it is this that degrades your position on the more fundamental concepts.
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I agree with that. Amrit, you really need to address this.
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Amrit, getting the wrong formula for gravitational time dilation certainly is important if you are planning experiments to measure it. It also does not speak well of your understanding of the subject (or that of your Professor or whoever peer reviewed the paper).
I have not been arguing against your time concept, which is not without merit. As Farsight mentions, it is not dissimilar from his own view I think. However your conclusions regarding gravitational time dilation are wrong and it is this that degrades your position on the more fundamental concepts.
Graham going inside the earth gravity diminish and clocks run faster.
going above the surface of earth gravity diminish and clocks go faster
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Graham going inside the earth gravity diminish and clocks run faster.
going above the surface of earth gravity diminish and clocks go faster
Amrit, you are wrong about clocks running faster inside the earth. They run slower because they are at a lower potential. Light (or timing ticks) coming up from a lower potential to a higher potential are redshifted. The formula you used may well apply outside a massive body but cannot be extended inside.
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The puzzle with time is that time we can not observe. We can observe only material change i.e. motion. Already Einstein and Gödel discuss the there is no time in the universe. Their idea is fully developed here. Clocks run in space only and not in time. Space itself is timeless. According to the formalism X4 = i x c x t fourth coordinate is spatial too. Time is not 4-th of space. Space-time is not 3D + T, space-time is 4D. Time “t” is a tick of clock and is only a component of X4. This is missing comprehension of SR. In SR space-time is timeless. Physical time is run of clock in space. There is no physical time behind run of clocks. Time dilatation means that clocks run slower; not because time shrinks, there is no time in the universe, universe is timeless.
With clocks we measure numerical order of material change i.e. motion. Fundamental unit of numerical order is Planck time. Planck time tp is derived from velocity of light that is as fundamental constancy of the universe: tp = pd /c, where pd is Planck distance. The smallest distance photon can move between two points A and B of space is Planck distance. Distance between A and B is a sum of Planck distances: d AB = sum dp1+ dp2 + dp3…….+ dpn. Numerical order of photon motion is tp1, tp2, tp3….tpn.
In the space “before” and “after” exist only in a sense of numerical order to, t1, t2, t3…tn of material change that we measure with clocks. In the same way as t2 is after t1, number 2 is after number 1. t0 presents beginning of the measurement, tn end of the measurement.
There is no travel into past as one can travel in space only. Some physical phenomena are immediate as EPR. For them tn is zero. Zeno problem of motion and time is resolved. Archile and turtle move in space only and not in time.
Velocity is derived from numerical order: v = d /tn.
Frequency is derived from numerical order: frequency = 1/tn.
View of physical time as a run of clocks in timeless space was published recently: - Amrit S. Sorli, Davide Fiscaletti, Dusan Klinar, Time is a measuring System derived from Light Speed, Physics Essays, Vol 23. Num 2. (2010)
We experience material change i.e. motion in the universe through the psychological time “past-present-future” that has its basis in neuronal activity of the brain. Recent research confirms that: - Catalin V. Buhusi, Warren H. Meck, What makes us thick?, Functional and neural mechanisms of interval timing, Nature reviews, Volume 6, October 2005
Universe is without time as predicted by Einstein and Gödel: -Yourgrau P, World without time: The forgotten legacy of Gödel and Einstein, Amazon (2006)
Understanding of timeless nature of the universe requires awareness of inner psychological time through which one experiences material change i.e. motion. Observer has ability to watch, to witness how scientific mind creates scientific theories. By developing this ability of watchfulness one discovers that inner psychological time is his/her basic frame of experience. He/she becomes aware of timeless nature of the universe.
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Recent research confirms that: - Catalin V. Buhusi, Warren H. Meck, What makes us thick?, Functional and neural mechanisms of interval timing, Nature reviews, Volume 6, October 2005
Now that's the sort of research I could do with. Matthew