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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  3. Chemistry
  4. How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
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How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?

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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #40 on: 25/08/2023 15:46:05 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 25/08/2023 14:23:00
So, once again; how big is your apparatus?
If it's more than a few nm you can pretty much ignore the direct electrostatic effects.
I thought you can estimate the size from the video, that they are significantly larger than 1 cm.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #41 on: 25/08/2023 16:13:02 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/08/2023 15:46:05
Quote from: Bored chemist on 25/08/2023 14:23:00
So, once again; how big is your apparatus?
If it's more than a few nm you can pretty much ignore the direct electrostatic effects.
I thought you can estimate the size from the video, that they are significantly larger than 1 cm.


I thought they would be.
In that case, shocking as you may find this, I was correct to say
Quote from: Bored chemist on 24/08/2023 08:43:30
The molecules can not possibly know what is happening somewhere else.
So there's no way for that to affect the way they diffuse.
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #42 on: 26/08/2023 04:05:19 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 25/08/2023 16:13:02
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 25/08/2023 15:46:05
Quote from: Bored chemist on 25/08/2023 14:23:00
So, once again; how big is your apparatus?
If it's more than a few nm you can pretty much ignore the direct electrostatic effects.
I thought you can estimate the size from the video, that they are significantly larger than 1 cm.


I thought they would be.
In that case, shocking as you may find this, I was correct to say
Quote from: Bored chemist on 24/08/2023 08:43:30
The molecules can not possibly know what is happening somewhere else.
So there's no way for that to affect the way they diffuse.

So you won't think that this experiment below would work.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #43 on: 27/08/2023 12:17:46 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 26/08/2023 04:05:19
So you won't think that this experiment below would work.
How long have you been having these hallucinations, and have you consulted a doctor?
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #44 on: 28/08/2023 06:27:04 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/08/2023 12:17:46
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 26/08/2023 04:05:19
So you won't think that this experiment below would work.
How long have you been having these hallucinations, and have you consulted a doctor?
Why can't you just tell why it works?
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #45 on: 28/08/2023 09:47:15 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 28/08/2023 06:27:04
Quote from: Bored chemist on 27/08/2023 12:17:46
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 26/08/2023 04:05:19
So you won't think that this experiment below would work.
How long have you been having these hallucinations, and have you consulted a doctor?
Why can't you just tell why it works?
Again with the nonsense.

I can tell how it works.
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Offline paul cotter

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #46 on: 28/08/2023 09:57:33 »
Hamdani, it depends on what is in those two beakers. Lead is quite electropositive but it often appears to be less so.
« Last Edit: 28/08/2023 10:00:25 by paul cotter »
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #47 on: 04/09/2023 13:05:06 »

When the clamp is released, some of salt water will flow to the left container. They don't have to know what's there on the other side. It's just chained interactions among particles in those containers.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #48 on: 04/09/2023 13:14:56 »
I'm pretty sure the right hand tank would drain before anything else happened.
To make the system work properly you need to make it airtight.
I also think there's a problem because salt water is denser than fresh.
The water in the tube with the clamp would initially flow from right to left
Once you fix that...

Initially, when you first open the clamp, nothing happens in the salt- or fresh- water tanks.
After a short interval the message that there's a  pressure gradient gets through and the liquid starts flowing.
That message arrives at the speed of sound in the liquid.
That's how it "knows" what to do and when.


What point were you trying to illustrate?
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #49 on: 06/09/2023 13:34:26 »
Let's just remove the tube to bottom tank. I was too lazy to draw it myself, so I just search online images resembling what I meant.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 04/09/2023 13:14:56
What point were you trying to illustrate?
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 04/09/2023 13:05:06
They don't have to know what's there on the other side.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #50 on: 06/09/2023 20:25:57 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 06/09/2023 13:34:26
Let's just remove the tube to bottom tank.
OK
Quote from: Bored chemist on 04/09/2023 13:14:56
What point were you trying to illustrate?
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: How to estimate time until concentration equilibrium?
« Reply #51 on: 07/09/2023 22:07:05 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 06/09/2023 20:25:57
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 06/09/2023 13:34:26
Let's just remove the tube to bottom tank.
OK
Quote from: Bored chemist on 04/09/2023 13:14:56
What point were you trying to illustrate?

It's contradicting your rhetoric.
Quote from: Bored chemist on 24/08/2023 08:43:30
The molecules can not possibly know what is happening somewhere else.
So there's no way for that to affect the way they diffuse.

Here is a video demonstrating diffusion with gas, but the effects have similarities with liquids.
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