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Quote from: Just thinking on 22/06/2021 06:38:22Maybe you can tell me if there is a universal moral standard and if so what that might be.I've explained it here several times already, but since you are new in the discussion, I guess I'll try to explain it again in more refined and concise expressions. If you have some spare time, maybe you can check out my older posts. I guess it would be too long to be comfortably written in a single post, so let's start from the basics.First we need to understand what a moral standard is, and what it is not. Then we need to know why we need a moral standard. It's essentially asking what would happen if we don't have any moral standard, and why it would be bad or unpreferred.The answer would give us the common goal we want to achieve from establishing the moral standards. Then generalize that common goal to cover as much subjects as possible, which will bring us to the universal moral standard.
Maybe you can tell me if there is a universal moral standard and if so what that might be.
OK then based on your description I would suggest a standard that prescribes to not breaking the law and the standard would include the right to punish those that do. If that doesn't do it then you've got me stumped.
Quote from: Just thinking on 22/06/2021 08:35:21OK then based on your description I would suggest a standard that prescribes to not breaking the law and the standard would include the right to punish those that do. If that doesn't do it then you've got me stumped.Which law? North Koreans have laws too. So does Moses, Hammurabi, The Talibans. Even Nazis and ISIS have laws. At this point it seems like you've got stumped already. But don't worry, I'll explain the idea slowly, one point at a time.
Then we have a Delmore as I first stated there is no universal moral standard as you your self have just admitted standards are different all over the world there for I shall just stick with mine and everybody to there own but we must remember we are all anserable to the law of the land.
Quote from: Just thinking on 22/06/2021 09:22:58Then we have a Delmore as I first stated there is no universal moral standard as you your self have just admitted standards are different all over the world there for I shall just stick with mine and everybody to there own but we must remember we are all anserable to the law of the land.If you are looking for difference among currently existing moral standards, then you'll get the difference. If you are looking for the universal moral standard, you should look for their similarities instead. Is there something in common that at least most of currently existing moral standards have? Of course I have to exclude nihilism and moral relativism since by definition they are not compatible with the concept of universal moral standard. Including them would only creates contradiction.
And that is my last point as there is no universal moral standard then contradiction rules.
Quote from: Just thinking on 22/06/2021 11:50:17And that is my last point as there is no universal moral standard then contradiction rules.Let's not jump into conclusion, and analyze the problem carefully, by answering the basic questions I've posted earlier one by one.
you win and I am a fool
Quote from: Just thinking on 22/06/2021 12:03:51you win and I am a foolI don’t think you are, but you have dropped into a very long and complex discussion with people who have been thinking about and discussing it for a while.You would need to go to the beginning and work through - it’s complicated
OK this has been interesting but I am getting a little bit dizzy we have gone round and round you win and I am a fool I thank you for your time and effort in taking me this far.
First we need to understand what a moral standard is, and what it is not.
Quote from: Colin2B on 22/06/2021 13:52:49Quote from: Just thinking on 22/06/2021 12:03:51you win and I am a foolI don’t think you are, but you have dropped into a very long and complex discussion with people who have been thinking about and discussing it for a while.You would need to go to the beginning and work through - it’s complicated It gets so long because I pursued the answers with as much rigor as I can get. I tried as far as possible to avoid making assumptions without necessities, as Rand's razor suggests. If an assumption is necessary, then rejecting it would inevitably lead to contradiction. Also remember that unexpected results come from false assumptions. If all your assumptions are true, you'll only get results that you have expected. Even when they are not what you really want. Much of the posts discuss about extreme cases, exceptions and counterexamples, also clearing up disputes and misconceptions. The basic itself is pretty simple and straight forward, as I've compiled before into a few steps.By Pareto rule, around 80% of problems come from 20% of causes. I think it's possible to summarize this thread into a few paragraphs without losing much of important points.
Much of the posts discuss about extreme cases, exceptions and counterexamples, also clearing up disputes and misconceptions.
By Pareto rule, around 80% of problems come from 20% of causes. I think it's possible to summarize this thread into a few paragraphs without losing much of important points.
Yes now I am a follower of yours you have convinced me we will be together to the end and at that point I will say goodby to my good friend. I thank you so so much for your teaching of this very important life lesson I have learned so much in such a short time I can never thank you enuff. peace be yours.
Let's start with the first step.
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 22/06/2021 14:26:48Let's start with the first step.Continuing to finish the first step. Moral standards can be classified as memes, which are information located in the minds of conscious entities, and have influence on their behavior. Not all memes are moral standard. There must be some defining characteristics that distinguish them from other memes. Before continuing, I want to make distinction between moral standards and moral rules. Previously I often used them interchangeably. IMO, their similarity is that they are both algorithms used to distinguish good behaviors from the bad ones. Moral rules adress particular issues, while moral standards aim to more general and fundamental concepts that underlie those rules. An example can be put forward to help understanding this distinction better. In ten Commandments, each one of them is a moral rule. The moral standard behind those rules is obeying commands from Moses' God. Based on this standard, obeying Moses' God is good, while defying Him is bad. From one of the commandments, we are told that not stealing is good, thus stealing is bad.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments
Before continuing, I want to make distinction between moral standards and moral rules. Previously I often used them interchangeably. IMO, their similarity is that they are both algorithms used to distinguish good behaviors from the bad ones. Moral rules adress particular issues, while moral standards aim to more general and fundamental concepts that underlie those rules.
Morality can be a body of standards or principles ...
the more specific it is, it's more likely to be called a moral rule.
Stone the rape victim for not screaming for helpDeuteronomy 22:23-24 If a man happens to meet in a town a virgin pledged to be married and he sleeps with her, you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the girl because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man's wife. You must purge the evil from among you.