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... Richard Maurice Bucke, also writing in the late 19th-early 29th century time period.
My conclusion from that study is that we humans make God in our image, not the other way around.
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation." --------- William Paley (1743-1805)
Odd, I guess I'm supposed to appreciate the patronizing? I've been trying to intentionally avoid a discussion on the specifics of religion, etc. yet here you all are making assumptions of what I know and don't know.
This works both ways of course:"2:6 Remember that those who have chosen denial in advance, it is all the same to them whether you apprise them (of the consequences of their actions) or apprise them not. They will refuse to acknowledge the truth."
Strange quote when you consider the next line"2:7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom." That's rather condemnatory for a supposed forgiving god - the obvious reading of the words is that you get one chance, and after that you are doomed to burn with no possibility of repentance. Nice - that's why I tend to loath the misandric rantings of those in bronze age Judea and medieval Mecca
God (His Law of Cause and Effect) has sealed their hearts and their hearing, and on their sight there is a veil. And theirs will be a tremendous suffering. [Khatm or Taba’ from God, seal on the hearts, is a natural consequence of one’s deeds. Blind following, adamancy, being unjust due to selfish interests and arrogance render the human perception and reasoning unreceptive to Divine revelation. Thus, one loses sensitivity and the ability to perceive reality. It is easy to see how damaging this fall from the high stature of humanity can be, a tremendous suffering that is built-in as the logical consequence of such attitude. 4:88, 17:46, 18:57, 40:35, 45:23, 83:14]
21:30 Are the disbelievers not aware that the heavens and earth used to be one solid mass and We exploded them asunder? And that out of water We made every living thing? Will they not, then, acknowledge the truth? [Here is a clear allusion to the Big Bang theory. Numerous celestial bodies came into being and started swimming along in their orbits. Almost all modern astrophysicists believe that this Universe has originated as one entity from one single element, hydrogen that, in stages, became consolidated with gravity and then broke apart into celestial bodies. 21:33, 24:45, 36:40, 79:30]41:11 Likewise, He is the One Who designed well the Sky when it was Smoke (Nebulae of gas). And He said to it and the earth, "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We do come, obedient." [Thumm = Afterward, then, so, likewise, similarly, in the like manner. The Cosmic bodies coming into their orbits willingly or unwillingly indicates their being inherently subservient to Divine laws, unlike humans who have been granted free will. 3:82, 13:15]51:47 And it is We Who built the Universe with power, and certainly, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. [Samaa = Sky = Heaven = Allegorically the Universe. Bi-Ayidin = With both hands = With power. The expansion of the Universe was first proposed by the Belgian cosmologist Georges Lemaitre and the Russian scientist A. Friemann. In 1929, it was observed for the first time by the American astronomer Edwin Hubble. The Qur‟an had given us this knowledge 14 centuries ago! 55:5, 36:38-40]
QuoteStrange quote when you consider the next line"2:7 Allah hath sealed their hearing and their hearts, and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be an awful doom." That's rather condemnatory for a supposed forgiving god - the obvious reading of the words is that you get one chance, and after that you are doomed to burn with no possibility of repentance. Nice - that's why I tend to loath the misandric rantings of those in bronze age Judea and medieval MeccaYou're not really leaving me with much choice. Let me explain, then, why I've been avoiding the use of "Islam", "Qur'an" and "Muslim" (i.e. the "specifics of religion" as I have been putting it). First off, the correct translation for that verse along with the translator's comments in square brackets is as follows:QuoteGod (His Law of Cause and Effect) has sealed their hearts and their hearing, and on their sight there is a veil. And theirs will be a tremendous suffering. [Khatm or Taba’ from God, seal on the hearts, is a natural consequence of one’s deeds. Blind following, adamancy, being unjust due to selfish interests and arrogance render the human perception and reasoning unreceptive to Divine revelation. Thus, one loses sensitivity and the ability to perceive reality. It is easy to see how damaging this fall from the high stature of humanity can be, a tremendous suffering that is built-in as the logical consequence of such attitude. 4:88, 17:46, 18:57, 40:35, 45:23, 83:14]
And all this just brings us back to square one. I find your presenting of prevailing Qur'anic translations as well as any from Hadith as evidence against Islamic reasoning to be misdirected, and you will naturally find a request to brush up on accurate Islamic history and the Qur'an itself to be unreasonable so we're getting no where. All this, again, is not to suggest that I think everyone here has just made up their minds and can't think critically from the other side. I just don't find it to be a fruitful discussion, which is why I was trying to approach a question that I was interested in without bringing in these religious arguments.