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  4. Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
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Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #180 on: 13/01/2023 19:05:09 »
Quote from: theThinker on 13/01/2023 16:29:05
But then many people "vote" against their "measurements" and dismiss the work of particle physics.
Those people as are known as idiots.
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Offline Kryptid

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #181 on: 14/01/2023 06:17:10 »
Quote from: theThinker on 13/01/2023 16:29:05
No. It is all a matter of opinion and faith and belief in the experimenters.

That sounds like conspiracy theory talk.

Quote from: theThinker on 13/01/2023 16:29:05
But then many people "vote" against their "measurements" and dismiss the work of particle physics.

The Moon wouldn't stop existing if people voted against its existence.

Quote from: theThinker on 13/01/2023 16:29:05
They hold the "opinion" that the "mesaurements" cannot be trusted.

You mean like the "opinion" of flat-Earthers?
« Last Edit: 14/01/2023 06:31:47 by Kryptid »
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #182 on: 03/02/2023 13:40:06 »
This video explains reflection in similar way to antenna model. Explanation for refraction would be the sequel I'm anticipating.
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Offline hamdani yusuf (OP)

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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #183 on: 03/02/2023 13:47:02 »
Quote
A lot of optical illusions can be explained by Fermat's principle of least time, but why does light obey it? On a fundamental level, it all comes down to quantum mechanics, specifically quantum optics, where we use the famous "Feynman path integral formulation" to explain light through photons.
Here's a pinned comment by the author.
Quote
Clarification: In my quantum animations, that is not multiple photons taking different paths. It is a single photon taking multiple paths simultaneously. We're releasing only one photon at a time. Adding those phasor arrows together gives us the probability of receiving a single photon at any given moment.

Minor Correction: I show the paths leaving the source at the same time and arriving at the detector at different times, when it should actually be the other way around. Paths that take more time should be leaving the source earlier in order to arrive at the detector at the same time as the others. The reason we can add the phasor arrows together is because the paths arrive at the detector at the same time.
This video explains refraction as the result of path integral of each individual photon. Although it doesn't explain the mechanism for how the media can change the speed of light in them.

Regarding the minor correction, if a photon's paths were leaving the source at different time, they would be leaving from different positions in case the source is moving.
« Last Edit: 03/02/2023 13:55:53 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #184 on: 03/02/2023 14:41:37 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/02/2023 13:47:02
This video explains refraction as the result of path integral of each individual photon. Although it doesn't explain the mechanism for how the media can change the speed of light in them.
Usual problem. You need Maxwell to determine the speed of propagation of light as a wave, and Planck to describe the interaction of a photon with a receptor. No big deal.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #185 on: 04/02/2023 04:27:32 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 03/02/2023 14:41:37
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 03/02/2023 13:47:02
This video explains refraction as the result of path integral of each individual photon. Although it doesn't explain the mechanism for how the media can change the speed of light in them.
Usual problem. You need Maxwell to determine the speed of propagation of light as a wave, and Planck to describe the interaction of a photon with a receptor. No big deal.
Maxwell's equation doesn't describe the relationship between permittivity of a medium and its internal microstructure. It's obtained empirically.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #186 on: 04/02/2023 10:26:35 »
True. But it also applies in vacuo where there is no microstructure. Hence c is considered to be a fundamental constant.

It would be possible in theory to calculate ε and μ for real materials, but what's the point?  It is done for artificial metamaterials.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #187 on: 05/02/2023 07:34:37 »
The point is, having an accurate and precise model of the physical reality gives us the ability to predict and design systems that we need to achieve our goals more effectively and efficiently. Trial and error can often give useful results, but we should be able to achieve it more efficiently.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #188 on: 06/02/2023 14:33:53 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/02/2023 07:34:37
The point is, having an accurate and precise model of the physical reality gives us the ability to predict and design systems that we need to achieve our goals more effectively and efficiently. Trial and error can often give useful results, but we should be able to achieve it more efficiently.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #189 on: 06/02/2023 18:12:49 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 05/02/2023 07:34:37
The point is, having an accurate and precise model of the physical reality gives us the ability to predict and design systems that we need to achieve our goals more effectively and efficiently.
You are using a computer which could not have been made without accurate models.
So you should know that such models already exist.

Have you not been payting attention?
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #190 on: 07/02/2023 02:38:40 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 06/02/2023 18:12:49
You are using a computer which could not have been made without accurate models.
So you should know that such models already exist.
Do you know what models that they are using?
Are they the same as what we usually find in common physics textbooks or online sources?
What can you say about different explanations for refraction of light which were posted in the earlier part of this thread?
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #191 on: 07/02/2023 08:04:15 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 07/02/2023 02:38:40
Are they the same as what we usually find in common physics textbooks or online sources?
Yes.
Where did you think the engineers learned them from?
Ancient scrolls?
Mystic spell passed down from master to apprentice?
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #192 on: 07/02/2023 09:07:34 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 07/02/2023 08:04:15
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 07/02/2023 02:38:40
Are they the same as what we usually find in common physics textbooks or online sources?
Yes.
Where did you think the engineers learned them from?
Ancient scrolls?
Mystic spell passed down from master to apprentice?
Which one is it?
Do you know that they are contradicting one another?
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #193 on: 08/02/2023 18:28:40 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 07/02/2023 09:07:34
Do you know that they are contradicting one another?
If I ask you to provide examples am I going to have to remind you about "lies we tell to children" again?
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #194 on: 09/02/2023 14:15:13 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 08/02/2023 18:28:40
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 07/02/2023 09:07:34
Do you know that they are contradicting one another?
If I ask you to provide examples am I going to have to remind you about "lies we tell to children" again?
A bad thing about lies is that they need more lies to cover them up.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #195 on: 09/02/2023 18:20:34 »
If you rely on contradictory models you won't be able to make anything that works. This computer works, so I assume it was built with the use of models that do not contradict one another.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #196 on: 09/02/2023 19:50:46 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 09/02/2023 14:15:13
Quote from: Bored chemist on 08/02/2023 18:28:40
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 07/02/2023 09:07:34
Do you know that they are contradicting one another?
If I ask you to provide examples am I going to have to remind you about "lies we tell to children" again?
A bad thing about lies is that they need more lies to cover them up.
Or, as with LWTTC, the truth , but later on when they understand.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #197 on: 10/02/2023 11:51:20 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 09/02/2023 18:20:34
If you rely on contradictory models you won't be able to make anything that works. This computer works, so I assume it was built with the use of models that do not contradict one another.
Computer designers can make computer works without knowing why light changes its speed and direction during refraction.
Do you realize that Apollo mission used Newton's model?
« Last Edit: 10/02/2023 11:55:32 by hamdani yusuf »
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #198 on: 10/02/2023 19:25:51 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/02/2023 11:51:20
Computer designers can make computer works without knowing why light changes its speed and direction during refraction.
Except if they use optical fiber couplers, which I certainly have done.
Quote
Do you realize that Apollo mission used Newton's model?
Up to a point, except that all the solid state devices rely on quantum phenomena, not continuum mechanics, and Newton wasn't too explicit about the combustion of liquid hydrogen or re-entry ablation. His theory of television seems a little shaky too.
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Re: Why light changes its speed and direction during refraction?
« Reply #199 on: 11/02/2023 16:02:22 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 10/02/2023 11:51:20
Computer designers can make computer works without knowing why light changes its speed and direction during refraction.
No.
The design of modern computers relies on modeling the "bits of wire" as transmission lines.
This sort
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_line
rather than
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_power_transmission

And such models depend on knowing the speed at which the signals travel along the lines.
And that depends on the refractive index (and dispersion) of the insulating materials at the frequencies involved.


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