[nova]

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Everyone, I just received a lengthy and very hopeful email from Prof. dr. Waldinger, but the contents are confidential. Let's hope for great success in his continuing POIS Medical Research and publication efforts!

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Demo, it's it encouraging to hear that Dr. Waldinger is interested enough to spend the time and effort for a long communication.  We will all be patient!

[demografx]

In the meanwhile let's exchange garlic recipes.

 []  []  []        Thanks, Vandemolen!

[demografx]

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Everyone, I just received a lengthy and very hopeful email from Prof. dr. Waldinger, but the contents are confidential. Let's hope for great success in his continuing POIS Medical Research and publication efforts!

*****************************************************************

Demo, it's it encouraging to hear that Dr. Waldinger is interested enough to spend the time and effort for a long communication.  We will all be patient!

Thanks, nova!!

[Animus]

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Everyone, I just received a lengthy and very hopeful email from Prof. dr. Waldinger, but the contents are confidential. Let's hope for great success in his continuing POIS Medical Research and publication efforts!

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that's great news.

[demografx]

Thanks, Animus!

[Animus]

Did I/we miss seeing this???

CASE REPORT
Postorgasm Illness Syndrome—A Spectrum of Illnesses
Jane Ashby, MRCP, and David Goldmeier, MRCP

WHOA, where'd you find this?!?!  This definitely should be on the website, and I'm going to try and get a copy.  Oh, and btw, I'm in the States now back from China...talk about culture shock/jetlag.

This is a great find, demo. I think that's a good idea, pyro, to list the articles on the POIS website. I usually print them out when I find them.

[Tim in San Francisco]

Hi demografx and forum contributors,

I discovered your forum several months ago and have so greatly appreciated the discovery that I am not alone in much of the suffering I have experienced related to sex and masturbation. This group of people has been an amazing discovery and I am very thankful to those who both have shared their experiences as well as the generous, helpful, and collaborative spirit I see in the quest for solutions.

I too experience many of the symptoms some contributors have here described for several days after experiencing an orgasm. For myself, this condition has been related to anxiety symptoms that can be brought on by a range of factors but with recency of an orgasm as a primary factor. For that reason, I've wondered whether the condition is the same as for those who describe flu-like symptoms originating only with an orgasm and not present from other triggers.

However, when reading those posts that describe brain fog, muscle tension, joint pain, fatigue, anxiety, etc. these sound identical to my experience. I find that the anxiety (and related symptoms) following sex has been a disruptive factor in my relationships, and that I attempt to plan masturbation and/or sex when there is at least a full free day afterward without significant social or work commitments. I prefer seclusion and rest for 24 - 48 hours afterward, and work or social interactions are more difficult and tend to intensify the symptoms. However, during periods of lesser outside stresses, my reactions to orgasm will be less severe. Similarly, if I have greater stress from work, relationships, etc. I will attempt to avoid any sexual activity as I know the cost will be greater. Psychotherapy, meditation, and exercise have been great resources to diminish anxiety from all sources including this. In particular, a long meditation first thing in the morning (30 -45 minutes) or a similar amount of time in aerobic exercise has been my best solution for the day following sexual activity when I can't or don't want to spend the day at home recovering.

I think you can see where there are similarities to many experiences, but also how the relationship to general anxiety points to some differences.  I would be curious as to hearing from anyone who sees a close relationship to my experience, or perspectives on how closely this maps to the POIS research.

Thank you again to contributors as I have very much appreciated all the useful information and care that has gone into your posts.

Tim

[Animus]

Hi demografx and forum contributors,

I discovered your forum several months ago ...

Thank you again to contributors as I have very much appreciated all the useful information and care that has gone into your posts.

Tim

Hi Tim, welcome. I am also in SF, and there is one Dr. Charles Moser at California Pacific Medical Center (CPMC) who is aware of POIS and has commented on this forum. He's an excellent Dr. with an excellent reputation.  I had an appointment with him. He didn't have a "cure" but was willing to try some things with me and provide some leads.

[demografx]

Tim in San Francisco, welcome to the POIS thread of The Naked Science Forum!




Here are some POIS resources which may be helpful to you:

Filling out the POIS survey created by "Counterpoints" will enable you to share POIS information and details with others here, as well as outside researchers.
http://pois.olympe-network.com/

Our POIS Information Website, built by "mat780", is here:
http://sites.google.com/site/POISwebsite/

Please see "B_Jim"'s POIS Summary of All Cases, here as well as others on the Web. This includes remedies that we have tested, and results.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg149009#msg149009

"Girlwind" has created an excellent POIS Video:

Our new POIS chatroom (realtime chat). Invite or visit another member(s) there, ANY TIME. We can all get to know each other better:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/POIS/chat

First POIS Research Study, 2002

We have a copy of the first formal medical investigation on POIS by Prof. dr. Marcel D. Waldinger,MD,PhD, and Dr. Dave Schweitzer, MD.

There are 2 ways to get it: (1) if you want a PDF copy, send me a Private Message (PM) with your regular email address (use "AT" instead of "@" ) and I'll send you back the PDF. Or, if you prefer, (2) I can simply reply with a Private Message (no regular email needed) and provide you with a simple text version embedded in your PM.

To send a Private Message, click on "Messages" at the top of this page. At the Messages page, click on "New Message". From that point on, it works just like posting a message here, except that it only goes to the person(s) you designate.

Remember to put a quote around my name, i.e., "demografx".

   
Recent POIS Research Study, 2010

CASE REPORT
Postorgasm Illness Syndrome—A Spectrum of Illnesses
Jane Ashby, MRCP, and David Goldmeier, MRCP
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=6576.msg316781#msg316781

New York Times article,

January 20, 2009
Mind
Sex and Depression: In the Brain, if Not the Mind
By RICHARD A. FRIEDMAN, M.D.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/health/views/20mind.html?_r=1&scp=1&sq=friedman%20sexual%20January%2020&st=cse

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In addition to serving our own informational interests, the resources listed above can be useful for you to show our credibility to the medical world - which often shows little understanding and is sometimes skeptical of our condition: POIS has scientific underpinnings and POIS is not "just another psychological problem" related to sex - to be treated by the psychiatric/psychotherapeutic community. All of this information can greatly help you to fight the immediate reaction of some doctors: so just tell them, "IT'S NOT 'ALL IN OUR HEADS'! "

Also, it can be helpful when dealing with medical professionals to point out the successful existence of our rapidly growing forum, which has already been referenced in respectable sources such as the British Medical Journal and wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postorgasmic_illness_syndrome

For over 3 years, our POIS forum has attracted over 150 POIS sufferers worldwide who have posted here, plus over 700,000 page visits. Not bad for a rare malady!

[demografx]

Tim In San Francisco, this post will help you find information about POIS that we have already discussed, by tailoring a Google search to this forum:


SEARCH THE FORUM WITH GOOGLE

We have an overwhelming amount of data: 3 years' worth of posts (nearly 9,000 posts!) from 150+ Forum members, and an additional 150 POIS sufferers found elsewhere on the Internet by Member B_Jim.

In the Google search box, type
whatever-it-is-you're-interested-in-finding-out[space]POIS[space]site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

for example, I tried
demografx POIS site:http://thenakedscientists.com/

and 1,000+ results came up for "demografx" within the Forum.

be careful with spaces (you can use them before the word "site") and no-spaces (everything after the word "site")

Google even provides you results with the Message# for each result. But Message #'s do change, so be patient and look for the approximate Message#.

[demografx]

Hi demografx and forum contributors,

I discovered your forum several months ago ...

Thank you again to contributors as I have very much appreciated all the useful information and care that has gone into your posts.

Tim

Hi Tim, welcome. I am also in SF, and there is one Dr. Charles Moser at California Pacific Medical Center (CPMC) who is aware of POIS and has commented on this forum. He's an excellent Dr. with an excellent reputation.  I had an appointment with him. He didn't have a "cure" but was willing to try some things with me and provide some leads.

This now represents 2 Forum members who have been in contact with Dr. Moser. Also, he is held in high regard by a prominent sexuality researcher who put me in touch with Dr Waldinger back in 2002.

[demografx]

I really would like to have the full [POIS-Ashby] article

Pyropeach wrote in his recent post that he would try and get the full article. (In between his jet lag and culture shock! [] )

[pyropeach]

Hi demografx and forum contributors,

I discovered your forum several months ago ...

Thank you again to contributors as I have very much appreciated all the useful information and care that has gone into your posts.

Tim

Hi Tim, welcome. I am also in SF, and there is one Dr. Charles Moser at California Pacific Medical Center (CPMC) who is aware of POIS and has commented on this forum. He's an excellent Dr. with an excellent reputation.  I had an appointment with him. He didn't have a "cure" but was willing to try some things with me and provide some leads.

Maybe when I finally get some insurance, I'll make an appointment too, I'm just 45 minutes away from SF.  As for getting that other publication by Ashbey, looks I'm going to have to pull some strings somehow since my old university doesn't even have access to that journal...maybe I'll just pay the 52 bucks....

[Vandemolen3]

2/ If we don't release more inflammatory agents, is it possible our natural anti-inflammatory response is too weak ? (=cortisol).

Cortisol may have an effect on our dissease. The body makes new cortisol in the period of waking up. But because we don't have a deep sleep because of POIS, this doesn't happen. Now the question is: why don't we have a deep sleep in the first night after an O.
Cortisol may explain why we have the most pain in the day after an O.

[daveman]

I think you can see where there are similarities to many experiences, but also how the relationship to general anxiety points to some differences.  I would be curious as to hearing from anyone who sees a close relationship to my experience, or perspectives on how closely this maps to the POIS research.

Tim

Hi Tim.

Yup you're one of us!

It's pretty hard to think about going back into a round of suffering every time we approach a situation of intimacy/sex! Anxiety is inherant in the situation. Maybe some tend to think it is bio-physical, I feel that it is psychological. And not that we are nuts or imagining things by any means, but it's impossible to imagine that we could approach such a situation without being preocupied.

First, the tension in knowing that your are about to do something that will make you feel like hell for a week. Perhaps anxieties as to how that will affect the good development of a sexual interaction with a loved one, and then the natural in-built instinctive anxieties as the symptoms begin to develop. Here we go again! Fu....

Then of course facing responsibilities in a screwed up state of mind!

And this doesn't even touch the guilt one could feel. Fortunately I don't suffer from that one.

In my case, just knowing about this group and interacting with it has helped the stress and anxiety levels greatly. It provides a sort of escape, and theres a comradship, a feeling of not being alone. Knowing that it's not something worse, like cancer or something unknown, this helps too.

You mention meditation. A very good tool. I try to meditate twice a day in the first most difficult days. In the morning to help me disipate the "energy" throughout the day, and at night to "evaluate" ow I did.

Anyways, welcome to the club. Perhaps it would be best not to have to be a part of it, but since this thing is with us... don't think there's a better pace to be!

[Vandemolen3]

Dave, I don't think POIS is psychological. It may play a role when you are afraid of the effects of an O, but the main problem is bio-physical. The first research of dr. Waldinger went against those who said that it's between your head (psychological).

[daveman]

2/ If we don't release more inflammatory agents, is it possible our natural anti-inflammatory response is too weak ? (=cortisol).

Cortisol may have an effect on our dissease. The body makes new cortisol in the period of waking up. But because we don't have a deep sleep because of POIS, this doesn't happen. Now the question is: why don't we have a deep sleep in the first night after an O.
Cortisol may explain why we have the most pain in the day after an O.

Intersting.

If I have milky pee after orgasm, it's the night 24 hours after that I have it. And until I have the milky pee, my symptoms are acute! When I eliminate, within 1 hr. my symptoms diminish 10 fold.

Personally if I don't sleep well that night, it's because I feel like sh.....
Sort of chicken or egg? Feel like poo, no cortisol, or no cortisol, feel like poo?

Could certainly help to explain why it goes on beyond the 24 hrs.!

[daveman]

Dave, I don't think POIS is psychological. It may play a role when you are afraid of the effects of an O, but the main problem is bio-physical. The first research of dr. Waldinger went against those who said that it's between your head (psychological).

No, by all means, POIS is not at all pychological, I agree 100%. I was just refering to the anxiety effects, which Tim was refering to.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Animus]

I think you can see where there are similarities to many experiences, but also how the relationship to general anxiety points to some differences.  I would be curious as to hearing from anyone who sees a close relationship to my experience, or perspectives on how closely this maps to the POIS research.

Tim

Hi Tim.

Yup you're one of us!

Yes, from reading your letter, you definitely are one of us. You're coming at an interesting time, as you might see. We're hoping for some medical attention/ breakthrough here soon. Good luck!

[demografx]

...maybe I'll just pay the 52 bucks [for the Ashley-POIS article]....

Three of us in the forum have tentatively decided to chip in for a JSM researcher-recruitment ad, but that's on hold for now (not enough proportional contribution for the $270!).

I'll certainly chip in for the article. Would the other two forum members PM me or Pyro and let us know if you'll chip in as well.

All others invited to contribute to the cost of the article as well! (PM me or Pyro).

Many thanks, Pyro!