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Quote from: Jolly2 on 08/07/2020 20:46:34 According to you it's impossible that a doctor could mis-diagnosed a death from Covid19?I never said that.
According to you it's impossible that a doctor could mis-diagnosed a death from Covid19?
Quote from: Jolly2 on 08/07/2020 20:46:34Ok justify your assumptions.Covid kills people .I really don't think I need to justify that but, if you insist, check worldometer or something..Quote from: Jolly2 on 08/07/2020 20:46:34Whoever suggested there was a mutation at the same time in Spain and China? You, implicitly.
Ok justify your assumptions.
Whoever suggested there was a mutation at the same time in Spain and China?
You don't seem to understand that.Quote from: Jolly2 on 08/07/2020 20:46:34But they are not the same there are atleast 5 different strains. And the virus in China and Spain are different strains.The cool thing about molecular biology is that it tells you the evolution of those strains, and roughly when the different strains appeared.So, all you need to do is show the proof of your original claim.
But they are not the same there are atleast 5 different strains. And the virus in China and Spain are different strains.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 08/07/2020 20:46:34Honestly I think the troll is you.I had a look through those pages, and I think you sent me on a wild goose chase as part of your trolling.
Honestly I think the troll is you.
I couldn't see anything there that said that hypersensitivity reactions were a cause of a second wave.
They just make a bad disease worse.Which, in turn, makes your idea that this deadly , contagious virus was in Barcelona,
but didn't kill people like it "usually" does even less likely.
If there's anything in those pages which actually explains that a second wave was more lethal because of hypersensitivity effects, could you point it out please?
Quote from: Jolly2 on 06/07/2020 19:27:29it's hypersensitivity reactions that often cause the problems and increased death countGot any evidence for that?
it's hypersensitivity reactions that often cause the problems and increased death count
Or are you going to accept that you made that bit up ?
Quote from: Jolly2 on 08/07/2020 21:09:32 but from a laboratory it most likely came.So far, you have put forward zero evidence for that.
but from a laboratory it most likely came.
That exactly what you did.
Which is an absolute falsehood. What happens in your imagination maybe sometimes should stay there.The suggestion is directly yours and not mine.
cause of a second wave? Wow where did that come from? When was it ever suggested that hypersensitivity caused a second wave?
Not my idea mr chemist,
Well speculation aside if it was in Spain in March 2019 and there is no huge death count, we'll have to find out why.
You know some of my suggestions as to possible reasons
It was directly addressed in the last article. Why don't you read it.
deadliness of 1918 Spanish flu linked to hypersensitivity ... enjoy
As the earlier quote suggested the only place we find a virus similar to covid19 is in a laboratory
If you want to argue a zoological origin then provide the evidence to support your claim for the burden of proff is on you.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 00:01:58That exactly what you did. No.It isn't.I can only suggest that you learn to read.What I said was impossible is that the doctors would have missed a mass die-off, even if they don't have a diagnosis.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 00:01:58Which is an absolute falsehood. What happens in your imagination maybe sometimes should stay there.The suggestion is directly yours and not mine.It seems I need to explain what "implicitly" means.For your assertions about the virus being in Barcelona in March to be true, and for the outbreaks to suddenly become serious in both China and Spain at much the same time, the virus would have had to suddenly become contagious
in both places at the same time.So, you saying that the virus was there early, and yet only became apparent at the same time implies that the virus gained virulence in both places at the same time.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 00:01:58cause of a second wave? Wow where did that come from? When was it ever suggested that hypersensitivity caused a second wave?Oops!Sorry, you didn't say it was the cause of a second wave.You said it was the cause of an extra deadly second wave.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 06/07/2020 19:27:29it's hypersensitivity reactions that often cause the problems and increased death count And that's what those papers didn't support.Sorry for the confusion.Now, can you please actually cite evidence for what you said?
Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 00:01:58Not my idea mr chemist, You are the one putting it forward here.Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 00:01:58Well speculation aside if it was in Spain in March 2019 and there is no huge death count, we'll have to find out why.And if it wasn't there we don't need to explain something that's almost impossible; so that's much more likely.Why are you ignoring the obvious explanation?
Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 00:01:58You know some of my suggestions as to possible reasonsYes, and I know that the speculative "reasons" you put forward don't work.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 00:01:58It was directly addressed in the last article. Why don't you read it.That article does not use the word "second".If you think it says that the hypersensitivity reactions make a second wave worse than the first, please quote the bit where it says so.Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 00:01:58deadliness of 1918 Spanish flu linked to hypersensitivity ... enjoyNot really in dispute.But it doesn't say that hypersensitivity makes the second wave worse than the first, which is what you were attempting to explain.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 00:01:58As the earlier quote suggested the only place we find a virus similar to covid19 is in a laboratory In reality, similar viruses have been studied in bats for over a decade.https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2851503/
Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 00:01:58If you want to argue a zoological origin then provide the evidence to support your claim for the burden of proff is on you.OKThere you are.And it's happened before with a different virus.https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/2/4/96-0408_article
I was in Barcelona a few years ago.
If the population density was high enough (and the infected density high enough) that they found the virus in the sewers (just think about the dilution involved there) it's hard to see why nobody noticed.
Not sure I really believe the oppsy seems a bit to common.
And you can learn to read first.I never suggested a mass die off. You're the one obsessed with that.I suggest a first wave in 2019 with hardly any deaths going unnoticed because of doctors mis -reporting cause of death. With a increase in death in a secound wave.So again. You are changing my statements to then rebuff a falsehood and then claim you have disproved them which you havent at all.It's a very disingenuous way to dedate.
Evidence of hypersensitivity increasing death count is in the article I posted. Stop wasting my time
The virus does not need to be more deadly for hypersensitivity to effect the mortality.
No it doesn't, hypersensitivity is the body over reacting and killing people ergo the virus itself isn't killing anyone the bodies immunse system is responsible for the death.
I'm not. I have from the beginning been exploring possible reasons for a low death count, if the study is true.
A second wave is worse through hypersensitivity because stored antibodies from the intial infection(first wave) are released and attack the host(in the second wave)..
Yes studied in laboratories,
still as stated in the article covid19 is not a normal Corona virus
It has not been found anywhere in nature.
“The properties that we now see in the virus, we have yet to discover anywhere in nature."
Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40Not sure I really believe the oppsy seems a bit to common.From a man who can't post anything without making a mistake...Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40And you can learn to read first.I never suggested a mass die off. You're the one obsessed with that.I suggest a first wave in 2019 with hardly any deaths going unnoticed because of doctors mis -reporting cause of death. With a increase in death in a secound wave.So again. You are changing my statements to then rebuff a falsehood and then claim you have disproved them which you havent at all.It's a very disingenuous way to dedate.Cut to the chase.Show where I said what you claim I did.Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40Evidence of hypersensitivity increasing death count is in the article I posted. Stop wasting my timeBut not as a reason why the second wave is more intense; which was the subject under discussion.You could stop wasting everyone's time by admitting that, while hypersensitivity is bad, it's also bad during the first wave.So it can't be a reason why the people of Barcelona didn't have a mass die- off.Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40The virus does not need to be more deadly for hypersensitivity to effect the mortality.No, but , for that to work, you need a reason that hypersensitivity is more important in the second wave.So far you have only pretended to offer evidence for that. In fact, you have not done so.Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40No it doesn't, hypersensitivity is the body over reacting and killing people ergo the virus itself isn't killing anyone the bodies immunse system is responsible for the death.And.... once again...There is no real reason why that would differ between a first and second wave, so there's no reason why it can be an explanation of the lack of an outbreak in Barcelona in March 2019.Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40I'm not. I have from the beginning been exploring possible reasons for a low death count, if the study is true.So, you admit you have been ignoring the obvious reason; that the virus wasn't there.Why are you ignoring the obvious reason?Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40A second wave is worse through hypersensitivity because stored antibodies from the intial infection(first wave) are released and attack the host(in the second wave)..And, again, that's the claim that I asked you to provide evidence for.Why have you not done so?Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40Yes studied in laboratories, No.Studied in bats.That's the point.Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40still as stated in the article covid19 is not a normal Corona virus Stated in an article that also states something we know isn't true.Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40It has not been found anywhere in nature.Yes it was- in a market in China, by some poor soul who became patient zero.Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 16:34:40“The properties that we now see in the virus, we have yet to discover anywhere in nature."Which properties?It seems to share most of its properties with SARS or MERS.
Quote from: Jolly2 on Today at 16:34:40And you can learn to read first.I never suggested a mass die off. You're the one obsessed with that.I suggest a first wave in 2019 with hardly any deaths going unnoticed because of doctors mis -reporting cause of death. With a increase in death in a secound wave.So again. You are changing my statements to then rebuff a falsehood and then claim you have disproved them which you havent at all.It's a very disingenuous way to dedate.Cut to the chase.Show where I said what you claim I did.
Quote from: Jolly2 on Today at 16:34:40A second wave is worse through hypersensitivity because stored antibodies from the intial infection(first wave) are released and attack the host(in the second wave)..And, again, that's the claim that I asked you to provide evidence for.Why have you not done so?
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/07/2020 17:38:12Quote from: Jolly2 on Today at 16:34:40And you can learn to read first.I never suggested a mass die off. You're the one obsessed with that.I suggest a first wave in 2019 with hardly any deaths going unnoticed because of doctors mis -reporting cause of death. With a increase in death in a secound wave.So again. You are changing my statements to then rebuff a falsehood and then claim you have disproved them which you havent at all.It's a very disingenuous way to dedate.Cut to the chase.Show where I said what you claim I did.
ERGO you made up a claim I Did not make
I never suggested doctors mis labelled 1000s to 10s of thousands of deaths from covid19.
I Never claimed a mass die off from the beginning
Sorry you'll have to justify your claim. According to you it's impossible that a doctor could mis-diagnosed a death from Covid19?
Do they still use germ warfare to fight wars these days? I am asking because these outbreaks started after NK started saying they were sending the united states a Christmas present? So Naturally, I am curious as to weather such viruses are used like they used to be? Nk has been known to use them in the past? My mind is racing, having a lot of time to think while in isolation? I am sure, I am not the only person who has seen the time coincidences, between the verbal sparring back and forth, between the countries, and threats on both sides. And then the outbreaks starting.
Here's the relevant text.Quote from: Jolly2 on Yesterday at 20:46:34Sorry you'll have to justify your claim. According to you it's impossible that a doctor could mis-diagnosed a death from Covid19?Now, for the second or third time of asking... show us where you think I said that.
Donald Trump is now even claiming to have seen evidence that it escaped from a lab.
Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 19:23:31Donald Trump is now even claiming to have seen evidence that it escaped from a lab.Was that before or after the alien anal probe?
Not only any alien anal probe, but the greatest and most beautiful anal probe ever enjoyed by any president. They found his head, minus the tongue, and are now planning to probe Vladimir Putin for the missing bit.God help America.
Quote from: Karen W. on 17/03/2020 07:16:44Do they still use germ warfare to fight wars these days? I am asking because these outbreaks started after NK started saying they were sending the united states a Christmas present? So Naturally, I am curious as to weather such viruses are used like they used to be? Nk has been known to use them in the past? My mind is racing, having a lot of time to think while in isolation? I am sure, I am not the only person who has seen the time coincidences, between the verbal sparring back and forth, between the countries, and threats on both sides. And then the outbreaks starting.Hi Karen to repeat myself again.It seems clear that, Covid19 has been realised from a lab. Donald Trump is now even claiming to have seen evidence that it escaped from a lab.Brazil has now just released a study showing covid19 present in November 2019 5 months earlier then previously thought. And Spain also had released a study showing Corona virus was in Spain back in March 2019.Currently Genetic analysis is taking place on the virus' found.
Quote from: alancalverd on 09/07/2020 20:27:53Quote from: Jolly2 on 09/07/2020 19:23:31Donald Trump is now even claiming to have seen evidence that it escaped from a lab.Was that before or after the alien anal probe?You have any evidence for alien anal probe of trump?
Not only any alien anal probe, but the greatest and most beautiful anal probe ever enjoyed by any president.
To continue:-
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/07/2020 19:11:09Here's the relevant text.Quote from: Jolly2 on Yesterday at 20:46:34Sorry you'll have to justify your claim. According to you it's impossible that a doctor could mis-diagnosed a death from Covid19?Now, for the second or third time of asking... show us where you think I said that.