Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: acsinuk on 07/04/2021 19:03:34
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New Universe Fifth Force is the Magnoflux Spin Effect Force.
The new force that spins galaxies around blackholes and planets around stars is a magnetic spin force. BBC report this evening identifies the force predicted by Magnoflux hypothesis a decade ago. #nasa #energy #bbcnews #scienceandtechnology
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F&hash=3cd4f4119996b42d10f5ed9eb0e8d712)
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You seem to have mistaken this for twitter and also added a couple of random pictures of bad sci fi.
It might have been better to include a link to the BBC story.
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Without any link to the story described, this seems to be mostly in the realm of promoting your own ideas. As such, I'm moving it to "New Theories".
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New Universe Fifth Force is the Magnoflux Spin Effect Force.
The new force that spins galaxies around blackholes and planets around stars is a magnetic spin force. BBC report this evening identifies the force predicted by Magnoflux hypothesis a decade ago. #nasa #energy #bbcnews #scienceandtechnology
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F&hash=3cd4f4119996b42d10f5ed9eb0e8d712)
Another possible mechanism is based on Newton's Law of action and reaction. Since gravity is a force, matter that is being acted upon by gravity will lower gravitational potential and give off energy. This is similar to an electron lowering EM potential and giving off energy.
Based on Newton's law of action and reaction, we should expect to see an opposite reaction to the action of gravity, just as the exothermic out of an electron lowering potential can excite another atom. Rotation is one reaction to the lowering of gravitational potential. Rotations will create kinetic energy and centrifugal force, which acts similar to an antigravity affect. Rotation creates a force vector away from the direction of gravity. This would be driven by the exothermic output as the action of gravity lowers potential; energy conservation.
If we look at kinetic energy as a function of radius for any given angular momentum, it is fastest on the surface and zero in the center of gravity. This is consistent with action and reaction with the center having zero gravity; vector addition, and therefore least energy conservation reaction. The surface has the highest potential and will have the largest endothermic action-reaction.
The magnetic affect is related and appears to be connected to the unity of negative charge and mass as displayed by the electron. The electron has been found to be single fundamental particle with both mass and negative charge. This single particle state implies a unification of negative charge with mass; two forces act as one unified thing, i.e., one particle.
The gravitational potential, acting on matter, drags electrons along via the atoms they occupy. This lowering of gravity, seen by the electrons, shifts the unified balance between negative charge and mass within the electrons. Magnetism is one affect; reaction to the action of gravity. It is a way to maintain negative charge and the energy balance; reaction, by adding velocity as currents and thereby generating magnetic fields to define the action-reaction energy. The magnetic right hand rule, then generate a force to induce rotation, so the nuclei protons are also with the action-reaction program via kinetic energy inertia. Gravity runs the show.
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How many new "Forces" will be "discovered" do you think?
Obviously no-one suggests that some Physicists might make up "Forces", just to get more publicity and funding!
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If that happened, then independent researchers would be unable to replicate their results. So it would be a bad idea to try to pull something like that.
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Based on Newton's law of action and reaction, we should expect to see an opposite reaction to the action of gravity,
And we do.
The Moon pulls on the Earth just as hard as the Earth pulls on the Moon.
What point did you think you were making?
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The magnetic affect is related
Not really.
appears to be connected to the unity of negative charge and mass as displayed by the electron.
Not really.
two forces act as one unified thing,
Mass is not a force.
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The point is that the standard model cannot explain the spiralling of stars around a super massive black hole because the black hole is an induced massless magnetic hub around which the stars rotate. The magnetic hub supplies a magnoflux spin force which cosmologists know exists particularly in neutron stars. In fact the dark matter magnoflux spin force is also present in solar systems which magnetically connect the star to the clumps of planetary matter that spin around it.
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New Universe Fifth Force is the Magnoflux Spin Effect Force
There are hints from experiments on Muons at Fermilab and LHC that perhaps there may be a fifth force, beyond the Standard Model.
- Apparently, muons, due to their greater mass, will be about 40,000 times more sensitive to a hypothetical 5th force than the electron.
- The results have not reached the 5σ criterion needed to publish an effect as being confirmed
- But it has exceeded the 4σ criterion for indicating that there may be an effect.
- If and when they confirm that there is some effect, that does not tell Physicists what this force is
- It is certainly not possible for real physicists to say "New Universe Fifth Force is the Magnoflux Spin Effect Force" with the current level of knowledge
If this new "Magnoflux Spin" theory is any good, why not predict the result of the LHC & Muon g-2 experiments, before they finish the experiments?
- To do this, you will need to generate all the Feynman diagrams for all of the new interactions, and calculate the contribution of each scenario to the final answer.
- Apparently, the LHC thinks they will have collected enough data in about 2 years. The clock starts in early 2022, when the LHC upgrade is complete.
See (12 minutes): https://www.sciencefriday.com/segments/cern-physics/?fbclid=IwAR054LdYnhB9C9PrilV_uY4eSDD7KwB5AZ-t6TlOB3-PzAt3lzO_lJK9hIk
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the black hole is an induced massless magnetic hub
The one thing we know about a black hole is that it is not massless.
The point is that the standard model cannot explain the spiralling of stars around a super massive black hole
I'm pretty sure it does.
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Based on Newton's law of action and reaction, we should expect to see an opposite reaction to the action of gravity,
And we do.
The Moon pulls on the Earth just as hard as the Earth pulls on the Moon.
What point did you think you were making?
I was thinking in terms of star formation, where gaseous matter and dust, decreases volume and increases mass density due to the gravity acting to form a star. Since this action lowers gravitational force potential, energy should be given off by that force, that can cause an opposite reaction.
We will see kinetic energy increase and the matter begin to rotate. The rotation will create a centrifugal force, that has a force vector that goes in the opposite direction of the radial vector from the center of gravity; action and reaction. If gravity caused collapse, without any rotation, then kinetic energy and heat could account for the entire energy output, due to the lowering of gravitational potential. That is not the case. The kinetic energy is commandeered by the rotation, with this rotation creating an opposite force vector for every atom in the star, except perhaps those at the dead center of gravity/rotation.
When you deal with steady state cycles like the earth and moon, this is less obvious, since the rotations came from long ago and carry momentum from earlier times.
It was discovered that the core of the earth spins faster than the surface. The core of the earth is dragging the surface through visco-plastic friction. This tells us that the main zone of gravitational potential lowering on earth, is now closer to the core, resulting in a stronger opposing force vector reaction; core's fastest rotation. The cooling of the iron core could be making the core denser.
The best way to infer a fifth force is to look at the earth's water.
Water is an interesting wild card. It is the only material that exists in three phases at the same time on earth; gas, liquid and solid. The rest of the materials in the atmosphere and crust of the earth remain gases or solids, not including solids and gases dissolve in water, by liquid water. It is not cold enough to freeze CO2, N2, HN3, CH4, etc.
The movement of water from gas, to liquid to solid results in a lowering of entropy, as we go from higher to the lower complexity. Gravitational force and pressure, and solar heat, battle for the entropy of the water, with the sun favoring the 2nd law.
As the sun melts ice to form liquid water and the liquid water evaporate into water vapor, water entropy increase. The earth will try to reverse this, going from water vapor to rain and snow; weather. The reaction to the action of the earth; lowering water entropy, is called weather, driving by the fifth force of nature, called the entropic force.
When the sun evaporates water it increases water entropy; 2nd law. This creates an entropic potential for the earth. The analogy is like shaking oil and water to blend them. As soon as we stop the system tries to reverse. The earth will not allow perpetual evaporation of the surface water. There is a limit until a potential for reversal is created; negative entropy potential.
The 2nd law, drive by the sun, can only go so far, with the cyclic nature of sunshine; day and night, before the earth's gravity and pressure reverse the excess entropy increase. In the summer, when the sun is hotter and stronger and more water evaporates, the negative entropic potential can get highest and cause the condensing water vapor action of weather to create a 2nd law reaction; severe thunderstorms. These reactions can pull water miles into the air away from the earth; anti-gravity affect similar to a rotation. They go opposite gravity and can even set up rotations.
Water is also interesting in that it can exist in other phases, inside the earth, as the temperature and pressure increase inside the earth. This creates a chemical potential for water to exist all the way to the core of the earth, where it will become a metal at the conditions of the earth's core. Density alone does not tell the entire water story, since although water is less dense, it's phase changes, as it descends toward the core, allow for solvent affects that can increase the entropy of the inner earth's entire low entropy system.
For example, water on the surface is not a good organic solvent. We get the water and oil affect. Water heated and pressured to its critical point now becomes a very good organic solvent that can even dissolve stable minerals like quartz. This helps balance the entropy lowering impact of gravity; water is being driven by the 2nd law; entropic potential. At hotter temperatures and higher pressures, super critical water can grind down any organic material to CO2 and water. I hope the climate changers take into account the hydrothermal formation of CO2 from raw subterranean fossil fuel. I learned about this from an industrial process used to safely destroy complex cancer causing organic materials, using super critical water. The product was CO2.
Below the crust, as we go into the mantle, water, driven by the entropy increase of higher pressure and temperature, changes phases again and becomes what is called super ionic water. No crust material can remain solid in this type of water; super entropy booster. A sudden pressure drop; action of the moving crust, can cause this phase of water to explode like TNT as it returns to the supercritical water phase plus minerals. It is a nasty water phase, used to help the continental plates move along the mantle.; lowers friction via higher entropy.
A large ocean of water have been found "below the crust" in the upper mantle below SE Asia. There was also a large scar found on the ocean floor, of the Atlantic Ocean, where the crust was removed, and the mantle is still exposed. The latter may have been from an explosive phase shift of superionic to super critical water, eons ago. This type of venting could cause global warming by heating the deep water of the oceans.
The water of Mars appears to have been commandeered by the subsurface layers of the planet to use the water to help increase inner planet entropy. There is a lot of seismic activity and a huge volcano, perhaps using super ionic water for loosening things up; entropic forces.
Again, the phases of water, are defined by the electrons of water, with all electrons a single particle phase, that unifies negative charge with mass and gravity. Water also contains the hydrogen proton, which are protons that have never undergone mass burn. These have non unified properties, in terms of gravity and positive charge. The proton is not a unified particle. There are practical difference in charges under various phase and entropic force conditions. Hydrogen protons play a role in shifting the inner earth mineral-oxide equilibria. It also appears that the hydrogen protons are helping to rust the iron core, to release electrons. The oceans are slightly negative in charge. Water is continuous from core to atmosphere, with the entropic potential created by the sun, felt to the earth's core.
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Since this action lowers gravitational force potential, energy should be given off by that force,
Energy will be released: the components of the proto-star will get hot.
that can cause an opposite reaction.
No
The "opposite reaction" was there all the time.
If A attracts B then B attracts A.
That's it.
That's the whole of the "equal and opposite reaction" story.
We will see kinetic energy increase and the matter begin to rotate.
The matter was already rotating.
Angular momentum is conserved throughout the process.
The rotation will create a centrifugal force
Except that's a fictitious force. It doesn't really exist.
We will see kinetic energy increase and the matter begin to rotate. The rotation will create a centrifugal force, that has a force vector that goes in the opposite direction of the radial vector from the center of gravity; action and reaction. If gravity caused collapse, without any rotation, then kinetic energy and heat could account for the entire energy output, due to the lowering of gravitational potential. That is not the case. The kinetic energy is commandeered by the rotation, with this rotation creating an opposite force vector for every atom in the star, except perhaps those at the dead center of gravity/rotation.
When you deal with steady state cycles like the earth and moon, this is less obvious, since the rotations came from long ago and carry momentum from earlier times.
All of that is high-school physics.
The best way to infer a fifth force is to look at the earth's water.
People have. For some time...
Nobody has noticed a fifth force.
Water is an interesting wild card. It is the only material that exists in three phases at the same time on earth;
No it isn't.
It is not cold enough to freeze CO2, N2, HN3, CH4, etc.
Nobody said it was.
But it is sometimes cold enough to freeze rock and it is sometimes cold enough to melt rock.
Gravitational force and pressure, and solar heat, battle for the entropy of the water, with the sun favoring the 2nd law.
This sort of anthropomorphism seldom helps with understanding.
The earth will try to reverse this, going from water vapor to rain and snow;
It's not got much to do with the Earth.
In the summer, when the sun is hotter and stronger
The Sun's output is substantially constant.
Water heated and pressured to its critical point now becomes a very good organic solvent
Water is never organic.
a very good organic solvent that can even dissolve stable minerals like quartz.
Nor is quartz.
At hotter temperatures and higher pressures, super critical water can grind down any organic material to CO2 and water.
No. It obviously can't.
Where would the other elements like nitrogen have gone.
I learned about this from an industrial process
You should have studied harder.
The industrial process uses oxygen to destroy organic chemicals. The solvent is water.
It's a better solvent when it is hot- which is helpful- but the real game changer is that the reactions are faster when they are hot.
the fifth force of nature, called the entropic force.
Which is demonstrably bollocks that you made up.
It is very clearly wrong, because the units don't work.
It's like trying to express the weight of something in hours.
Again, the phases of water, are defined by the electrons of water,
No, they are not.
Why post such obvious tosh?
with all electrons a single particle phase, that unifies negative charge with mass and gravity.
Word salad.The proton is not a unified particle.
What is that meant to mean?
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The point is that the standard model cannot explain the spiralling of stars around a super massive black hole
You are correct.
The elliptical path of point masses around the mass of a black hole is described by gravity in Einstein's General Relativity. Gravity is one of the known 4 fundamental forces.
- The spiral path of binary black holes or neutron stars is also described by gravity in Einstein's General Relativity. These objects can also be considered as (almost) point masses.
- The spiral path of extended objects (eg stars or dust clouds) around a black hole or neutron star is partially described by Einstein's General Relativity. It needs the addition of modelling of turbulent flow, frictional heating to create a plasma, electrical currents and magnetic fields in a rotating accretion disk and electromagnetic radiation from hot gas and plasma,(ie magnetohydrodynamics). These latter effects are primarily due to the electromagnetic force.
But the Standard Model of Particle Physics does not currently describe gravity
- Gravity would require the Standard Model to be extended with the addition of the hypothetical (but confidently predicted) graviton
We don't need a 5th force to describe the accretion disk around a black hole.
- But we might need a 5th force to describe all the decay modes of muons...
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All you need is an exothermic output, stemming from gravity as gravity lowers potential. This will form an action and reaction affect that appears to be opposite the gravitational force. For example, as the EM force in the hydrogen atom lowers potential, it gives off a proton that can cause another hydrogen atom to increase potential; action and reaction. In the case of gravity, we would expect to see a type of anti-gravity affect from the output due to gravity lowering potential. This appears within the centrifugal force vector of the induced rotation. This vector goes opposite the gravity vector; action and reaction.
This action and reaction is not exactly equal and opposite, because much of the energy output from the lowering of gravitational potential, goes outward and beyond; misses the local target. We will get local rotations, as well as secondary affects due to additive outputs; large number of rotating stars rotating in even higher level order; spiral galaxies.
We observe stars forming first and faster in the center of a spiral galaxy. The perimeter sees a large opposing affect due to the 3-D gravitational energy output from the center stars. Perimeter star output goes more into empty space, beyond the galaxy, for another mega anti-gravity affect; expansion. Expansion of universal space-time implies an antigravity style affect; action and reaction. Dark energy, on the cosmic scale, equals the exothermic output from gravity lowering potential, that goes beyond the local rotations of star and galaxies.
Gravity tends to lower entropy; compressed to lowered complexity. Gravity increases free energy and tends to create an entropy potential, via the second law. Secondary reactions will need to occur to increase entropy, making use of the free energy that is given off. There is no perpetual motion, so the reaction to the action has to add up to higher complexity, forming in the lowering complexity due to lowering of gravitational potential. Rotation adds complexity and slows the lowering of entropy; resists the falling into the center.
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All you need is an exothermic output, stemming from gravity as gravity lowers potential. This will form an action and reaction affect that appears to be opposite the gravitational force. For example, as the EM force in the hydrogen atom lowers potential, it gives off a proton that can cause another hydrogen atom to increase potential; action and reaction. In the case of gravity, we would expect to see a type of anti-gravity affect from the output due to gravity lowering potential. This appears within the centrifugal force vector of the induced rotation. This vector goes opposite the gravity vector; action and reaction.
This action and reaction is not exactly equal and opposite, because much of the energy output from the lowering of gravitational potential, goes outward and beyond; misses the local target. We will get local rotations, as well as secondary affects due to additive outputs; large number of rotating stars rotating in even higher level order; spiral galaxies.
We observe stars forming first and faster in the center of a spiral galaxy. The perimeter sees a large opposing affect due to the 3-D gravitational energy output from the center stars. Perimeter star output goes more into empty space, beyond the galaxy, for another mega anti-gravity affect; expansion. Expansion of universal space-time implies an antigravity style affect; action and reaction. Dark energy, on the cosmic scale, equals the exothermic output from gravity lowering potential, that goes beyond the local rotations of star and galaxies.
Gravity tends to lower entropy; compressed to lowered complexity. Gravity increases free energy and tends to create an entropy potential, via the second law. Secondary reactions will need to occur to increase entropy, making use of the free energy that is given off. There is no perpetual motion, so the reaction to the action has to add up to higher complexity, forming in the lowering complexity due to lowering of gravitational potential. Rotation adds complexity and slows the lowering of entropy; resists the falling into the center.
Why post such obvious tosh?