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EM waves which propagate in vacuum don't interact with each other -
and it results in change of frequency for the reflected photon.
In order to be perfectly reflective the walls have to be infinitely massive (this causes other problems).
So do EM waves
You claimed that photons will always maintain the same frequency,
Overall, the sum of the energies will be conserved The wavelengths of the photons will be "scrambled" and will settle down to a black-body distribution.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 07/06/2021 18:46:04and it results in change of frequency for the reflected photon.Only if the mirror is moving.If you use an infinitely massive mirror, that problem goes away.I already pointed this out.Quote from: Bored chemist on 07/06/2021 14:11:54In order to be perfectly reflective the walls have to be infinitely massive (this causes other problems).
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 07/06/2021 18:49:10So do EM waves So your earlier post was wrong.Quote from: CrazyScientist on 07/06/2021 09:07:57EM waves which propagate in vacuum don't interact with each other - Come back when you have finished arguing with yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-photon_physicsIn fact 2 photons can theoretically interact with each other without any intermediate medium - but it can happen only at extremely high energies of interacting photons (gamma frequencies) and in practice it doesn't produce a gravitational singularity. What is being observed, is the creation of a pair of a matter particle and a corresponding antiparticle, which then annihilate each other in a tiny fraction of a second...But from your post I might conclude, that according to GR photons can if fact interact with each other gravitationally(). Is this true?
But from your post I might conclude, that according to GR photons can if fact interact with each other gravitationally(). Is this true?
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 07/06/2021 19:17:21But from your post I might conclude, that according to GR photons can if fact interact with each other gravitationally(). Is this true?As far as I'm aware.And the alternative would be weird for two reasons.1Imagine a big strong box with an atom bomb in it floating in a bigger box in deep space.And imagine that there's a pendulum clock sitting on the bigger box.It is ticking away because the bomb is so big that it produces a gravitational field (at the wall of the box) that is the same as the Earth's gravity.When the bomb goes off, all the debris is caught by the inner box. But, in doing so, it gets very hot.That heat means that (briefly) there will be lots of photons rattling round in the inner box.Their mass corresponds to the mass which is annihilated by firing the bomb.Either the clock on the outer box carries on keeping time, in which case the photons must have an gravitational attraction for the pendulum, or it doesn't keep time- in which case you have to explain how it "knows" what has happened inside the box.
I have no idea why do you describe a light bulb enclosed by a spherical mirror, as a ticking bomb, which is about to explode, implode and turn into a black hole... If causing such a cosmic-scale disaster would be so simple, we would be dead long time ago...
It's the longest post I saw y
This is a completely invalid depiction a continuous light emission.
You make the first measurement and find that photon at a specific location -
Besides it is proven experimentally,
2The easier proof is simple.We know that light going past a star is diverted from its path.And we know that light carries momentum.So we know that the gravity of the star changes the momentum of the light.But a change in momentum requires a force.So we know that the start exerts a force on the light.And by Newton's third law we know that the light must exert an equal and opposite force on the star.That's the gravitational attraction of the photon for the star.So we know that the relativistic mass of a photon has a gravitational attraction.And ew know that the photon is also subject to gravitational attraction.So we know that two photons attract each other (in a tiny way) via gravity.That effect is usually too small to consider but, if you keep putting photons into a "box", eventually you end up with enough mass to form a black hole.
If what you say is true, we should be able to detect even a weak gravitational interaction between 2 parallel laser beams, if we would use lasers with enough power.
besides they can't resist acceleration, since they can't be accelerated anymore.
You should probably look harder.
All the evidence shows that light is quantised; there is no continuous emission.
The uncertainty principle means that a photon doesn't have a specific location- it has a range of probable locations.
You need to demonstrate that.
Do you have any idea how small the effect would be?
Thanks for clarifying the problem; you do not understand what acceleration is.Go and look it up.
Yes, but when you make an actual measurement of it's location, you will end up with a definitive result
So what? Our technology allows us to make quite precise measurements.
Acceleration - In mechanics, acceleration is the rate of change of the velocity of an object with respect to time.So, how this can be applied to gravitational interactions of photons? In what frame velocity of photons is changing in time?
Besides it is proven experimentally, that "my" depiction of photons and the EM radiation (consistent mainly with QM), is the one, which is valid.
Well, there are such things, like resonance cavities for photons - for example in lasers or in a microwave owens. What is being observed in those cavities, is that the "trapped" EM radiation forms a standing wave (if the size of cavity is proper for the wavelenght of EM wave).- EM waves behave in such case similarly to sound waves, what shows that my analogy of a buzzing speaker submerged in a sphere of water is in fact valid...
No it is not.And this is not evidence for it.
I know about EM radiation and sound in cavities.It has nothing to do with your claim, has it?
Well I would say, that my scenario is a perfect example of photons trapped in a spherical cavity
Actually analogy between sound and EM waves is quite commonly used by physicists throughout the history of physics...
Photons are made of Riemann-half-sphere-half-antispheres, with momentum encoded into it by added points of space. An antisphere is a sphere made of left out points of space.
Quote from: CrazyScientist on 10/06/2021 17:58:06Well I would say, that my scenario is a perfect example of photons trapped in a spherical cavityBut then you say that, even if the mirror is perfect, there's a loss of energy.
That's not whata "perfect mirror" means.Quote from: CrazyScientist on 10/06/2021 17:58:06Actually analogy between sound and EM waves is quite commonly used by physicists throughout the history of physics...Yes; Obviously. And we all know that.But it is not used for doing simulations of blackholes, because it probably won't work.