[demografx]

...THis is why I have been so strongly urging others to take initiative to do thyroid tests. It's
a simple action that could save you from many many years of worthless exhaustion.

Girlwind, sorry if this is repetitive, but have you found effective treatment for thyroid?

[Chewbacca]

RE: Limejuice

Relaxed, content, and low motivation….. That sounds like the perfect state of mind!!!!! Thought, I guess I can understand not liking the low motivation. I'm taking Theanine serene with Relora and its doing wonders. Still haven’t POIS tested it yet, but it's doing wonders for the rest of my life. I guess though for me I don't get hyper sedated because I'm taking an herbal mix that has ginseng in it. It's like I'm relaxed and have energy at the same time. The herbal mix is for what my Traditional Chinese Medical doctor calls kidney chi deficiency. Which in western terms I think means and imbalance in my hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis. Anywho, after a couple weeks more of treatment I'll do some testing and see how my POIS reacts to what I've been doing. I figure this little regime I'm on is good because I'm boosting the ability of my H.P.A. axis to deal with stress(ginseng/ TCM herbs) and I'm lowering my stress response with the theanine serene with relora. We’ll see how it goes. Maybe when I test I’ll take some fenugreek the day of and day after if need be.

Oh…..about fenugreek and my concerns with breast development in men who take it. It appears the risk of gynecomastia (man boobs) is somewhat small. One article I read said fenugreek contains a compound called diosgenin. Diosgenin a compound sometimes used in the creation of synthetic estrogen. Estrogen is the primary sex hormone of female breast development. However the estrogen like effect of fenugreek is not the same thing as real estrogen. Fenugreek estrogen is a phytoestrogens (plant estrogen). These estrogen like compounds actually bind to estrogen receptor sites in the body and may actually decrease the effects of estrogen in the body because the real biological form of estrogen cannot bind to it’s receptor site. (so it might actually lower estrogen in the body)

Fenugreek definitely increases milk supply in nursing mothers which is one thing that would increase breast size. It also increases water retention…another thing that could contribute to its apparent breast growing effects.

However, despite all this….it’s hard to ignore a centuries old claim that fenugreek increases breast size. But, if it is the case that fenugreek increases breast size then at least there is a remedy for that. According to some sources one effective treatment for gynomastia (man juggs) is to take turmeric. Apparently it reduces breast tissue and I believe abdominal fat as well. Many men have used it for more classic cases of gynomastia (man knockers) So…..whenever I take fenugreek, I take turmeric right alongside it just to be safe. Tumeric is also good for the liver.
Hope this helps some of ya’ll.

[girlwind]

...THis is why I have been so strongly urging others to take initiative to do thyroid tests. It's
a simple action that could save you from many many years of worthless exhaustion.

Girlwind, sorry if this is repetitive, but have you found effective treatment for thyroid?

I'm working on it. See my post on this page--up above: MessageID: 203282

[pyropeach]

It is as if i become diabetic after orgasm.

Me too.  It's just weird...and quit unnecessary

Relora Results - after taking relora for a week I noticed a reduction in POIS symptoms and duration of period - approximately 50% for each.  I've decided to stop taking relora altogether because I didn't care for it's side effects - extreme relaxation, low motivation, and I would feel a weird content glaze affecting my personality.  I seem to be quit sensitive to it.

I'll now try fenugreek - just purchased a bottle of solgar at vitamin shoppe.

I just wanted to second this.  I've been taking Relora for 4 days now, three times a day.  It clearly has diminished my POIS symptoms (less brain fog, etc) to about 25%.  As for the duration of symptoms, I can't say at this point.  I have also noticed its relaxing effects as well as the lowering of motivation, but these effects aren't strong enough for me not to ignore.  So far, Relora is working better than anything I've tried before.  Of course I do still feel a little weird...for some reason my head feels kinda bloated.  I'll continue taking Relora and keep posting....

[demografx]

...I've been taking Relora for 4 days now, three times a day.  It clearly has diminished my POIS symptoms (less brain fog, etc) to about 25%.  As for the duration of symptoms, I can't say at this point.  I have also noticed its relaxing effects as well as the lowering of motivation, but these effects aren't strong enough for me not to ignore.  So far, Relora is working better than anything I've tried before.  Of course I do still feel a little weird...for some reason my head feels kinda bloated.  I'll continue taking Relora and keep posting....

Pyro, thank you. Just be careful with relora with Rx meds, and non-prescription too, since there's nothing in the pharmacy computers to check it against other stuff.(Fenugreek is in though)

Great news!

[tarkington]

I have been taking Relora for about two weeks now.  Three times a day.  I have had about eight orgasms.  I feel so normal that I now don't even worry about the my symptoms coming.  I do feel more relaxed because of Relora (or maybe its because of the orgasms).  But I don't mind that because I am normally very stressed.  However, I still have motivation, so I am not sure if that is a side effect of Relora or not.

I am amazed that I feel no more side effects.  Limejuice and others, I am not sure why I have an almost 100% reduction instead of just 50 or 25%.  Must be a biological difference.

I see no reason why I can't continue taking Relora indefinitely.  The ingredients are natural and I feel awesome, since I don't have to worry about POIS and the intense pressure to satisfy my desires (I used to battle with myself for hours because I had such intense sexual urges).  Now I have lots of time to make productive without the stress of intense sexual desire.

I can't tell you how great this forum truely is.  How many times have you heard about a large group of people coming together, most of whom have no medical background, and finding certain medicines and herbs that fix the chemicals of the body.  That is why humans are so incredible!

It's amazing how ajusting just a few chemicals like cortisol (a chemical?) can actually change a persons entire life.  It will change my life.  

Thanks everyone for all the posts.  If I never found this forum I would still be stuck with the same miserable state of sexuality.  

[demografx]

I have been taking Relora for about two weeks now.  Three times a day.  I have had about eight orgasms.  I feel so normal that I now don't even worry about the my symptoms coming.  I do feel more relaxed because of Relora (or maybe its because of the orgasms).  But I don't mind that because I am normally very stressed.  However, I still have motivation, so I am not sure if that is a side effect of Relora or not.

I am amazed that I feel no more side effects.  Limejuice and others, I am not sure why I have an almost 100% reduction instead of just 50 or 25%.  Must be a biological difference.

I see no reason why I can't continue taking Relora indefinitely.  The ingredients are natural and I feel awesome, since I don't have to worry about POIS and the intense pressure to satisfy my desires (I used to battle with myself for hours because I had such intense sexual urges).  Now I have lots of time to make productive without the stress of intense sexual desire.

I can't tell you how great this forum truely is.  How many times have you heard about a large group of people coming together, most of whom have no medical background, and finding certain medicines and herbs that fix the chemicals of the body.  That is why humans are so incredible!

It's amazing how ajusting just a few chemicals like cortisol (a chemical?) can actually change a persons entire life.  It will change my life.  

Thanks everyone for all the posts.  If I never found this forum I would still be stuck with the same miserable state of sexuality.  

Tarkington...incredible!! Congratulations!

[martin88]

Tarkington, I think 2 weeks is not enough to say if you're completely cured but it's really nice you're reporting this here about your first 2 weeks of relief. You're young, maybe it can be a good idea to save a bit of fluids for your future partner.. I talk for me, sperm is like gold !
Several people here were reporting a 3 months without pois with a kind of euphoria, which for a psychiatrist may sound like an episode of mania, but I'm not one of them, I can't be judge.
An other point, you took centrum, this could have been involved in your success, not only Relora. Good luck.

[Counterpoints]

To clarify: I am not suggesting anyone permanently discontinue any supplement.  I think POIS, for some of us, could be caused by an underlying adrenal gland problem.  In this case, it would be wise to get a cortisol blood test.  Relora could interfere with the results of this test.  So in the event that you do want to get tested, I suggest temporarily discontinuing use of this supplement, within a proximity of the test.

Great news tarkington! I sense we are all becoming more hopeful.

[John21 (OP)]

Nice to see Relora is working for you Tarkington

>> POIS culprit = cortisol? <<

It is interesting to find claims that garlic can inhibit cortisol. Perhaps NO wasn't the mechanism by which garlic helped me.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KFY/is_6_21/ai_105514494

[martin88]

Very good results with Relora. You should try a least 1 or 2 months to eliminate placebo effect.
Relora help to reduce cortisol and balance DHEA too.

I agree with you B_Jim, it can be a placebo effect. But I'd like to add that it's not because an effect stay only for one month, or one day, or even for ten minutes that it's necessarily a placebo effect.
A good example of this is when you treat a plant with a fertilizer. If the latter is not well balanced, the plant will grow very quickly, will make big flowers, and will ultimately die of exhaustion, all this happens very quickly. The fertilizer "burns" the plant.
The healthy effect is not a placebo and doesn't stay indefinitely.

[msl]

Sorry guys but im in a bit of a bad mood! have we supposed almost every single cause under the sun by now? Testosterone, endocrine stuff, intestinal stuff? candida, blood pressure, neurotransmitter depletion, dopamine all this sorta stuff. I went to my gp the other day, she referred me to an erectile dysfunction clinic (the waiting period is around 11 weeks). I dont know where thats gonna go but i dont feel very enthusiastic. Howeverm My counsellor said that she had heard of cases where orgasm had induced an epileptic attack or fit. READ THIS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postictal_state [nofollow]
Do the words written here jump out of the page to you, like they did me?

“poor attention and concentration, poor short term memory, decreased verbal and interactive skills, and a variety of cognitive defects specific to individuals.”

Sound familiar? Also notice it mentioned that you may not be aware you have had a seizure. On further research i am under the impression that epilepsy is a very complex condition and that you do not have to have a "fit" (as what would normally assosciate with epilepsy) to have a seizure. the Neurotransmitter depletion suggestion as the cause for a post ictal state makes perfect sense to me. What do you all think?

[msl]

also notworth is:

"Dr. David Rabinowitz advised a full battery of investigations, and raised the possibility of a dissociative state, or a variant of Transient Global Amnesia. Dr. Ganesh Adaikan forwarded an article from the lancet where a woman with similar symptoms was cured with the antiepileptic, carbamazepine. Dr. Broderick also advised ruling out arrhythmias and blood pressure disorders by an ambulatory halter monitor and Blood Pressure cuff, then proceeding with considering dissociative states."

Taken from http://www.issm.info/prod/system/main/index.asp?page=/prod/data/issirlist/digest13.htm [nofollow]

[msl]

"I had come across the following article from Lancet long ago. It is somewhat inversely related to your case. Interestingly, the patient was cured with antiepileptic, carbamazepine 300mg."

[girlwind]

I have taken Relora for two weeks, and had to stop because I began feeling a bit too ampted up and had
trouble sleeping. At first I thought it could be other things I'm taking in addition (more iodine in diet and
the Ashwaganda), but just stopping the Relora brought me back down enough to get my sleep back. This
is puzzling.  Why would something that lowers cortisol give me insomnia...?  Any idea on this.

[tarkington]

Interesting.  After all of my orgasms before taking Relora I hade insomina that night.

Also, I really don't want to stop taking Relora to get a blood test.  I know that sounds selfish, but I can't stand the symptoms.

[Chewbacca]

Putting Things In Perspective:

I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing
                                                                                 - "Socrates"

A psychological reframe about POIS and epilepsy: POIS is a condition that has not really been all that researched. It has many symptoms that fit with many different theories. Some of these theories are, high cortisol, pituitary tumors that cause prolactin imbalance(always a good one), low dopamine, hypothyroidism, glucose imbalance, epilepsy, my personal favorite...kidney chi deficiency and probably many more.

Nobody know though! Nobody.

My point is that the dispair we sometimes might feel because we think our syndrome is caused by something serious might be overkill if we don't really know what is causing it. When we get down on ourselves because we think we are sure of the causes of our POIS, and I certainly do this all the time, we are saying that we know what causes POIS. Nobody...not you...not me...not nobody, has definitive evidence(conclusive research done over time) that says "X" is the causes of POIS. POIS could just as easily be caused by something relatively minor and insignificant as something major and ominous. I'm not saying this makes POIS any less shitty. But we just don't know what causes it. It might have many causes. Hell....even for some diseases that are wide spread and common we don't really know what causes them, just look at depression. It's all a big imbalance with serotonin right....that's just one theory. There is the serotonin hypothesis, there is also the norepinephrine hypothesis...then there is one million different nutritional imbalance theories. SSRI's didn't do sh1t for me. Hell maybe they are a cause of POIS, wouldn't surprise me. Also, just look at the symptoms of depression. Pretty common across the bored with some differences here and there, but there might be different causes. Who knows?

So it is with POIS. The only thing that really makes sense is to be a POIS agnostics (non-knower) until we get conclusive evidence about what POIS is caused by. I'm not saying stop our search...that would be dumb. I'm saying continue our search but apply certainty when it is warrented. Certainty comes with proof and lots of it.

There are some really good theories about POIS that seem to interlock with one another...specifically those theories having to to with the hypothalamic, pituitary, adrenal axis and things that effect it...remedies that effect it... like relora, fungreek and oxytocin synergists(levitra, loving thoughts and massage included:)

I think our hypothesizing is good and we should continue our experimentation with what we have found to work so far without becoming to attached to a theory until we have strong evidence. Relora, has worked for some, levitra has worked for some, fenugreek has worked for some. The operation of these compounds is most likely what will lead us to definitive theories...but in the spirit of this post, i don't really know that either. POIS could be just as easily caused by epilepsy. If that were the case I could accept it. But I will not accept such a premise without 1)Having proof that POIS can be caused by epilepsy and 2)Having proof that the POIS I experience is caused by epilepsy. These are two pretty big criteria to meet....for any prospective causes of POIS.

[pyropeach]

Sorry guys but im in a bit of a bad mood! have we supposed almost every single cause under the sun by now? Testosterone, endocrine stuff, intestinal stuff? candida, blood pressure, neurotransmitter depletion, dopamine all this sorta stuff. I went to my gp the other day, she referred me to an erectile dysfunction clinic (the waiting period is around 11 weeks). I dont know where thats gonna go but i dont feel very enthusiastic. Howeverm My counsellor said that she had heard of cases where orgasm had induced an epileptic attack or fit. READ THIS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postictal_state
Do the words written here jump out of the page to you, like they did me?

“poor attention and concentration, poor short term memory, decreased verbal and interactive skills, and a variety of cognitive defects specific to individuals.”

Sound familiar? Also notice it mentioned that you may not be aware you have had a seizure. On further research i am under the impression that epilepsy is a very complex condition and that you do not have to have a "fit" (as what would normally assosciate with epilepsy) to have a seizure. the Neurotransmitter depletion suggestion as the cause for a post ictal state makes perfect sense to me. What do you all think?

Very interesting.  This is what my first neurologist tested for - epilepsy.  But all he did was run two EEG tests; one when i was symptomatic and the other when I was normal.  He found nothing wrong.  I think epilepsy is a more believable cause for POIS, but we need more data as Chewbaca points out.  What tests can we take to see if we have some rare form of epilepsy?

Relora is still working great btw, thought its not a 100% fix, I can at least get through the day

[girlwind]

Relora, has worked for some, levitra has worked for some, fenugreek has worked for some.

To add to the list: a low carb, high protein diet with garlic has worked for some, and adrenal
boosting supplements with Aswaganda and iodine supplementation has helped one of us too.

[Limejuice]

I've caught the attention of an endocrine specialist that is willing to run additional test on me.  My next lab appt is January 5th.

Members, in the name of identifying cause of POIS, what tests do you suggest I undergo?

All thyroid tests have been negative (free t3, free t4, TSH).