[Jimbee (OP)]

Wasn't quite sure where to put this on these boards, so I'll put it here.

But I tell you, if you don't get this information here, where will you? Think about it. I also post it here to make a point.

People sometimes think thee and thou are old English. Not so. They are more Middle English, which came into being after the Norman Conquest of 1066, and the introduction of Old French (via Vulgar Latin) into the UK.

The original Anglo-Saxon tongue originate from a peninsula off of Denmark, somewhat shaped like a hook. That's what Angle means. It means hook. And I did hear the Lord's Prayer on Old English on the History Channel once. And you wouldn't recognize it. Sounds kind of Scandinavian, I think at least.

Anyways, here is where we get you from. You know, another interesting story. We used to use thou, which is merely the singular form of you (we do technically still use it—just very rarely). But doing that was called tutoyer, speaking to someone in the familiar. It can be considered rather disrespectful. I mean, if you addressed a cop who pulled you over for speeding in France as tu or toi, he'd arrest your ass right on the spot. So as English speakers became more egalitarian, we just naturally switched over to the more respectful You. So why do they still do it in France then? Hmmm.

Please read:

NOMINATIVE: thou NOM. PLURAL: ye
ACCUSATIVE: thee ACC. PLURAL: you
GENITIVE: thy(n) GEN. PLURAL: your
DATIVE: thee DATIVE PLURAL: you

[Bored chemist]

People sometimes think thee and thou are old English. Not so. They are more Middle English,

I live in Sheffield.
They are still in contemporary use.

[alancalverd]

The original Anglo-Saxon tongue originate from a peninsula off of Denmark, somewhat shaped like a hook. That's what Angle means.

Except it doesn't.
The Romans called the original inhabitants of the big flat bit of these islands "Angli". After the Romans left, the eastern side of the country was invaded by various Germanic groups whose root language was Saxon. Anglo-Saxon gradually became the principal language of England (i.e. the big flat bit) until the Norman Conquest, whence English developed as a blend of Norman French and Anglo-Saxon, with as much Norse and Gaelic as was useful to borrow from the people who lived  in the mountainous bits to the north and west.

[alancalverd]

Or arguably from the French "anguillophage" - those who eat eels.

And the French are not the worst offenders when it comes to "you". Polite German still requires third person Sie as a mark of respect, IIRC.

Thee and thou remain in northern England because Yorkshiremen do not recognise anyone as superior to themselves. Some years ago I was having lunch in The Cricketers in central Leeds, the fount of xenophobia.
The walls were decorated with cartoons and photographs of  various saints, including W G Grace. I said to the barman "That's odd. Grace never played for Yorkshire"  to which he replied "Appen not, but 'e were good enough."

[evan_au]

if you don't get this information here, where will you?

I've been following "the History of English" podcast.
- It is the history of the English language (including the many admixtures), intertwined with the more traditional history of invaders and kings and plagues.
- It is just reaching the point where English gained loan words from the Americas, and started diversifying into today's national accents

1 hour per month, currently up to episode 164.
https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/

[Petrochemicals]

Brittonic

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittonic_languages

Surprisingly still spoken in Brittany, France, whence I imagine the name did originate.

[Jimbee (OP)]

Another interesting example of tutoyer, in the play "The Merchant of Venice". Everyone keeps addressing the villain Shylock as thee/thou/thine etc. because he is a Jew. Isn't that sad? I have noticed though in some modern adaptations, they often replace it with the more respectful you. But is that really historical? That's not how Shakespeare originally wrote the play. Plus we should correct the past. But should we ever deny it ever existed? Think about it.

[Jimbee (OP)]

BTW I don't think I'll get another chance to ask this question

I first heard of Tutoyer in HS, when I took two semesters of French. And our teacher, Mlle. Rheault, use to tell us she'd never address her father in the familiar.

Is that true? Because even at the time, I would think you could. What to they do in France (she might've been from Quebec BTW)?

[alancalverd]

Polonius:"To thine own self be true".

No tutor would disrespect his princely student.

All this tutoyer and Sie/du nonsense is the kind of affectation practised by foreigners to hide the embarrassment of not being British. If thou 'ast owt to say, bloody say it.

Reported conversation between a chocolate sales rep at the door of a Yorkshire sweetshop and the owner behind the counter:
"Owt?"
"Nowt"
"Next month?"
"'Appen"
"Sithee then"
"Sithee."

[Petrochemicals]

Another interesting example of tutoyer, in the play "The Merchant of Venice". Everyone keeps addressing the villain Shylock as thee/thou/thine etc. because he is a Jew. Isn't that sad? I have noticed though in some modern adaptations, they often replace it with the more respectful you. But is that really historical? That's not how Shakespeare originally wrote the play. Plus we should correct the past. But should we ever deny it ever existed? Think about it.

The merchant of Venice and the Jew of Malta and such forth whrre written in the fallout of the Catholic plot to kill the protestant Queen of Enguland utilising a jew that had just fled the Spanish enqusition to poison Elizabeth 1st . You can't really have Shakespeare on the Jews side, he would have been shut down and maybe flayed alive.