Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: Harry01 on 18/04/2022 02:44:47
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Yes, I am going to open a massive hornets nest here, but I say: bring it on. Anyone want to defend the DSM and some of the nonsense psychiatric labelling. Let's talk about the labels that might have more scientific weight and distinguish them between ones that are borderline nonsense.
I think that it is a public service to discuss this as my psychiatric labels were misused and ultimately how does one recover from "body dysmorphia" or whatever it means to have this thing.
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This (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Therapy-Doesnt-Work-Should-About/dp/1841193496/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2QP2HIMJET546&keywords=smail+therapy&qid=1650297092&sprefix=small+therapy%2Caps%2C121&sr=8-1)makes an interesting read. In essence, Smail argues that most mental health problems are a normal reaction to abnormal circumstances, and therapy fails because it seeks to gaslight the patients into believing that they having an abnormal reaction to normal circumstances. The only therapist I've met who could communicate rationally without being deliberately obtuse left the job saying "I'm fed up of the way the patients are patronised, and fed up of pretending we're helping when we know we aren't".
My advice to anyone contemplating getting themselves a mental health record would be think very carefully about whether you want your healthcare blighted by Diagnostic Overshadowing for the rest of your life.
Connections by Johan Hari is a thoughtful and intelligent look at how our modern way of life creates many of the health problems that are reaching epidemic levels.
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In essence, Smail argues that most mental health problems are a normal reaction to abnormal circumstances, and therapy fails because it seeks to gaslight the patients into believing that they having an abnormal reaction to normal circumstances.
So are you saying mental conditions like schizophrenia doesn't really exist?
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I have heard that preparation of the next edition of DSM is lobbied by interested parties, because in the USA they can get health insurance funding if someone is diagnosed with a condition listed in the DSM.
That creates a perverse incentive to diagnose everything as one psychological condition or another.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders#Overdiagnosis
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In essence, Smail argues that most mental health problems are a normal reaction to abnormal circumstances, and therapy fails because it seeks to gaslight the patients into believing that they having an abnormal reaction to normal circumstances.
So are you saying mental conditions like schizophrenia doesn't really exist?
I think it's plain obvious I haven't said that, and nor did Smail, but even a schizophrenia diagnosis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment) isn't necessarily what it purports to be.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-99a7c34202a277ea8db60c8a01128864
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I think it's plain obvious I haven't said that, and nor did Smail, but even a schizophrenia diagnosis isn't necessarily what it purports to be.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-99a7c34202a277ea8db60c8a01128864
Ok, then what did you mean by "most mental health problems are a normal reaction to abnormal circumstances"?
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I think it's plain obvious I haven't said that, and nor did Smail, but even a schizophrenia diagnosis isn't necessarily what it purports to be.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-99a7c34202a277ea8db60c8a01128864
Ok, then what did you mean by "most mental health problems are a normal reaction to abnormal circumstances"?
You've already had the answer to that question, 7% of mental health conditions doesn't constitute 'most', does it.
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You've already had the answer to that question, 7% of mental health conditions doesn't constitute 'most', does it.
I didn't have the answer, that is why I asked. So this Smail guy doesn't know what he is talking about.
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One of the ironies of the US health system is that health insurance is normally tied to employment - and is often unaffordable without health insurance.
That means that those most in need of mental health services are often denied them - those suffering stress due to unemployment or cultural bias, or those who lose their employment due to erratic behavior.
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Do Psychiatrists world over, rely on Brain Scans?
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Given everything exists in your own sensory cortex any other viewpoint other than that is insane. Psychiatrists by default then are self denying abstractionism.
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So this Smail guy doesn't know what he is talking about.
The NHS clearly thought he did, or they wouldn't have employed him as head of Nottingham mental health services. Someone who thinks that Ad Hominem is a rational way to go about refuting an argument doesn't, though.
It's about 20 years since I read Smail, so I'm reluctant to get into arguing detail I don't recall, but I think most of his book related to therapy for problems like anxiety & depression, which are the biggest cause of mental illness that account for 8-9% of the population, and about 40% of all mental illness.
None of which is relevant to Smail's argument, which you are bending over backwards to avoid.
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Given everything exists in your own sensory cortex any other viewpoint other than that is insane. Psychiatrists by default then are self denying abstractionism.
I think, therefore i am.(Myself)
I sense, therefore it is.(Universe)
If I'm Real, then so is Everything Else.
Must be Really tough for Psychiatrists worldwide to prescribe a solution to a problem when the reality/existence of the problem itself is doubtful or questionable.
CT & MRI seem expensive & do not provide much help to sort things out, isn't it?
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Given everything exists in your own sensory cortex any other viewpoint other than that is insane. Psychiatrists by default then are self denying abstractionism.
I think, therefore i am.(Myself)
I sense, therefore it is.(Universe)
If I'm Real, then so is Everything Else.
Not quite how it works. The concept of face, eyes ears nose mouth, why does face exist? If you had your ears on your waist eyes in your kneecaps etc face would be a different concept. If this is true how does one justify psychiatries absolutes? The concept of laughter also, what causes you to spontaneously react in a man or and emmit a noise, it is just shy of a seizure. What is sane about laughter? Sex as Stephen Fry once put it, wanting to fit something snugly in something else. And god, man is descended from apes, God made man in his own image, so god may well be a monkey swinging in a tyre throwing his turds at the passing angels (credit : The Mary Whitehouse Experience)
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Been there with labels sticking to me like superglue. To me, the DSM ain't total nonsense; it's more of a tool, you know? Just like a hammer, it can build or destroy, depending on who's swinging it. Some labels, like depression or anxiety, have solid scientific backing. Then again, some feel like guesswork.
Your case with "body dysmorphia" sounds tough. The personal experience, though, and individual therapies at psychiatrists in NYC (https://www.riviamind.com/) helped me regain self-confidence. It made me understand labels ain't my identity, just part of a process. My girlfriend and I are even considering couple therapy. Labels shouldn't hold us down but help us understand ourselves better.
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Someone else who's noticed the Emperor's got no clothes on:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1676533464701468672.html