Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Technology => Topic started by: skeptic on 03/06/2008 02:34:06
-
I recently read that Acetone can be added to gasoline (at a rate of 1-3 ounces/10 gallons) to decrease hydrocarbon emissions and improve mileage.
Does anyone know of someone who actually tried this?
-
I've been meaning to but haven't got around to it yet. The theory is that it decreases the surface tension of the fuel, resulting in much smaller droplets when they are injected into the engine, so the fuel will have a larger surface area exposed to oxygen so it burns better.
-
I've been meaning to but haven't got around to it yet. The theory is that it decreases the surface tension of the fuel, resulting in much smaller droplets when they are injected into the engine, so the fuel will have a larger surface area exposed to oxygen so it burns better.
...and this is more important for Diesel engines than for gasoline ones. They say to use around 1% acetone on Diesel fuel. Greater amounts (more than around 2-3%) can cause damages on the injectors.
Edit Sorry, it was 0.1%, not 1%.
-
OK, imagine I'm a diesel fuel supplier. I can put a coupple of percent of acetone in the fuel easilly and cheaply enough. Then I can sell my "premium" diesel- "with X% more miles to the gallon" at a premium price.
So can all the other diesel dealers.
Why aren't they doing it?
Is there any real evidence of any significat effect?
(And some bloke on a website saying "I did it and it works" doesn't count as evidence. I'm talking peer-reviewed double-blind testing here)
-
Its obviously a conspiracy, they don't add the acetone so that you have to buy more fuel! :P
Its possible that the added acetone could damage some engines in the same way that some cars can't take ethanol mixed fuel, because it dissolves the fuel valves or something.
For what its worth though, I heard from "some guy on the internet" that its much less than 1 percent;
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone_as_a_Fuel_Additive
Apparently it was on mythbusters years ago though and they busted it? haven't seen the episode, but if you put too much acetone in your fuel it will decrease efficiency, "the people on the internet" reckon its about finding the right balance for your car.
-
I agree, they wouldn't intentionally add anything that would sell less fuel. It would be self-defeating. Even the idea of selling it at a premium wouldn't help, because it would scare away price-shoppers.
You are also correct about the ratio. The peswiki and pureenergy sites, and several others(GOOGLE: Acetone as Fuel Additive, for a list) that recommend no more than 3 OZ/10GAL. They also list some possible side effects, but mostly from people who seem to be afraid to test it out. Things like: "I work with plastics, and I know acetone will eat plastic and rubber, and cars have plastic and rubber parts". I wonder if they know it comes in plastic bottles?
I'm not so sure Myth Busters is completely unbiased. I would love to find a race-car mechanic or automotive engineer who doesn't have a program to sponsor. Someone who would benefit from a better fuel, and likes to try new things.
-
OK, imagine I'm a diesel fuel supplier. I can put a coupple of percent of acetone in the fuel easilly and cheaply enough. Then I can sell my "premium" diesel- "with X% more miles to the gallon" at a premium price.
So can all the other diesel dealers.
Why aren't they doing it?
I don't know, is it allowed?Is there any real evidence of any significat effect?
Sincerely I only related to what they say in motors' forums.
-
"I don't know, is it allowed?"
There are plenty of aditives in diesel. I doubt any of them make it cheaper so the idea that price would scare people off a premium product is weird.
-
There are plenty of aditives in diesel. I doubt any of them make it cheaper so the idea that price would scare people off a premium product is weird.
What I meant was, if one supplier claimed to have a "magic" ingredient that made their diesel fuel superior to the others and raised their price above the market averages, they could lose more in terms of regular customers before it proved out, one way or the other. For them, it would work best as a cooperative effort.
Its possible that the added acetone could damage some engines in the same way that some cars can't take ethanol mixed fuel, because it dissolves the fuel valves or something.
http://www.pureenergysystems.com/news/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
The site above has been collecting data from specific trials, listed by Make/Model, supplied by people who have tried this already. It has been tried by many with GOOD results.
-
Its possible that the added acetone could damage some engines in the same way that some cars can't take ethanol mixed fuel, because it dissolves the fuel valves or something.
[edited link out because of user status]
The site above has been collecting data from specific trials, listed by Make/Model, supplied by people who have tried this already. It has been tried by many with GOOD results.
My truck is currently failing DEQ because of excessive hydrocarbons. Hate to bump such an egregiously old thread, but wanted to potentially save others from leaving with less-than-satisfactory information like I nearly did. This is indeed an incredibly helpful link so it's worth noting that it appears their domain has changed, which caused the link error. The updated link is:
[MOD EDIT: Spam link removed]
^^ Well, the new domain is pesn, but at this point the only actual information or convenience I've provided is the knowledge that the link is available to find, for those who desire to look for it. Really appreciate all the spam measures, though. Makes me feel super irrelevant while trying to be helpful -- thanks!
Hope this was helpful and worth the bump.
XO,
-Jordan
-
Acetone is much more volatile (and flammable) than diesel fuel, so the gas space in a fuel tank would have a greater concentration of acetone, and the pressure-release valve would release more acetone vapor than diesel vapor.
The acetone content on the diesel fuel would decline with time, and the vehicle would no longer pass emissions regulations.
I suspect the authorities will now be on the lookout for schemes that meet emissions regulations under laboratory conditions, but fail in the real world.
-
Acetone is very soluble in water. Water in the fuel, the fuel tank and water which collects in the fuel filter, can potentially extract out acetone. The result is that you may need to add more acetone. This may result in other problems, such as the acetone affecting engine seals, especially in geographical locations, where it is always dry.
The water-acetone extraction problem may also occur at bulk storage locations, transport trucks, and even the filling stations. If any of these fuel tanks have water or water vapor problems, the water can extract out some of the acetone, such that the composition may change, station to station, and not maintain proper specs for maximum efficiency. It can become a little complicated, during scale up, but this is not impossible to remedy.