Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => That CAN'T be true! => Topic started by: QuantumClue on 17/01/2011 01:09:53
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http://www.stardrive.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3108:jan-2011-ufo-wave-over-moscow-is-3rd-independent-confirmation-of-et-governance-council-say-what&catid=45:weird-desk&Itemid=103
Next stop, London!
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Emmm... I pressed two by accident. Could a mod please alter the headline! thanks
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This photo of Moscow has hit the news media recently.
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.dailymail.co.uk%2Fi%2Fpix%2F2009%2F10%2F10%2Farticle-0-06C58E4C000005DC-612_634x302.jpg&hash=ac524495b9703d57f68334686e8262e2)
The photo is apparently real, undoctored, and a photo of the SKY.
Geezer...
What do you think?
Aliens Landing?
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When Aliens Attack?
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meteorologynews.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2009%2F10%2FHolePunchCloud4.jpg&hash=116edfdd5b766af9561bb0fe985fbfb6)
I think this one is from Sacramento, California.
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The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots. The proponents of UFO's of ET origin do not worry if such a disclosure states that ET does not exist, looking like idiots for their beliefs have become a lifestyle.
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As far as the first You-Tube video. I was going to say Venus interacting with fog or clouds. However, it does seem to progress relatively quickly, although time is hard to determine. So, that would put it as perhaps an airplane which would also be consistent with what appears to be blinking lights, but are probably just the normal lights at a distance that is too far for one to really distinguish the different wings.
The Spanish Film.
I'm a bit mixed on the explanation. At first it looked like a fixed light and some strange interaction in the clouds, sky.
However... my vote goes with a Russian Missile Attack.
I'd encourage you to lock yourself in a concrete bunker for the next few months!!!!
Note, at the end of the film, they jump to a Ferris-Wheel footage. This appears to be completely unrelated, and reminds me of a "fake UFO" that was down in Mexico a while ago. Or, it could, in fact be a Ferris Wheel.
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Emmm... I pressed two by accident. Could a mod please alter the headline! thanks
You should be able to modify it by editing the original post.
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I cleaned up the Sacramento image a little bit and got some interesting results... (http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=36486.0)
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg689.imageshack.us%2Fimg689%2F4838%2Fgeezalien.png&hash=d718ecf4ebb31a9ac57a2686ee2d0eeb)
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LOL! Nice, erm investigation there JP!
The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
On the contrary, how can rationally weighing-up evidence that turns out to have been utterly misleading when a completely unpredictable explanation comes to light make a person look like an idiot?
If it suddenly became indisputable that fairies lived at the bottom of our gardens -hidden from view, I don't think any rational person would feel idiotic for doubting their existence up to that point.
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LOL! Nice, erm investigation there JP!
The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
On the contrary, how can rationally weighing-up evidence that turns out to have been utterly misleading when a completely unpredictable explanation comes to light make a person look like an idiot?
If it suddenly became indisputable that fairies lived at the bottom of our gardens -hidden from view, I don't think any rational person would feel idiotic for doubting their existence up to that point.
How about the fact that these rational people, use irrational and blatent foolmaking cartoons? I appreciate you don't take this seriously, or anyone else for that matter. But making fun out of the people that do, will when a disclosure happens, if it happens, will turn the fun making on those who did not believe.
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I was poking fun at Geezer (see his avatar and the post I linked), but I'll shrink my post if it offends you.
I have nothing against your belief in UFOs. I have no doubt that you'll be laughing at us if aliens turn out to be visiting the earth after all. I'm not particularly worried about that.
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I seem to remember seeing the Moscow thingy in the news late last year.
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The problem with many of the "UFO" stuff is that it is often taken very much out of context. And, it truly may be a "UFO" to the person taking the photo. But, they may also attempt to play with the light a little... just for effect, as in the one photo capturing the sunlight just right.
I was hoping for some bites on the clouds. There is a discussion of "Hole Punch" clouds. There seems to be two causes. An accidental cause from aircraft passing over or through the clouds causing an interaction of their exhaust with the clouds, or deliberate seeding.
The Sacramento cloud is somewhat of a "classic" shape, in some photos of the event, you will see a cone below the cloud. Someone managed to catch the sun just right to give an out of this world effect.
The Moscow cloud is a bit more unique. However, apparently the Russian government was experimenting with Cloud Seeding which can also cause a similar effect. Again, the sun must have caught it just right to give it an out of the world effect. Assuming it is actually seeding, it is possible that the plane had flown in a roughly circular pattern. However, here is a similar photo from Colorado showing the same phenomenon with a similar 3-D effect.
http://www.meteorologynews.com/2009/10/12/hole-punch-cloud-not-ufo-spotted-over-moscow/
So.
That gets us back to the original two films.
The YouTube film of the dot, somewhat blinking in the sky. It looses resolution when zoomed in and becomes badly pixelated. Some odd artifacts show up when zooming. I assume these are showing up in the film editing room. I suppose that is common with UFO films, in part because any closer and they could be easily identified. I had originally thought it was being viewed at a fixed point, then it seemed to move, although the camera movies a lot too, so it is possible the viewpoint moved. If it was a fixed point, then it could be Venus poking through the clouds, or perhaps a prominent light on a tower. However, if it is actually moving, then the likely conclusion was viewing running lights on an airplane, with all colors tending to blend into one in the distance.
The Spanish film.
Some people suggested a hologram effect. The film seems to end with a pin-hole light. So, the light could be causing the ray effect, or could be what is being photographed. Unfortunately I'm not very good with my Spanish so I can only pick up half the words. It does appear to be trailing 3 jet streams. And, does seem to be moving (although the camera also moves and rotates). As I mentioned earlier, it could well be a rocket of some sort. The Shuttles all use 3 primary rockets. I don't know the actual takeoff angles. If this film was taken in Florida, I wouldn't think twice about it. More data of when and where it is taken, and information about surrounding airports, and how the Russians deal with space programs & experimental aircraft would be helpful. It just doesn't have an out of this world look. And, the final ferris-wheel image in the Spanish film has jumped cities, I'm not quite sure where to. But, it looks obviously man-made, perhaps a Christmas Ornament. Perhaps something on a hillside in the distance.
Why don't people take them seriously?
First of all, UFO doesn't mean alien from space. It merely means something that hasn't been identified yet, usually due to a lack of information, either unknown to the camera man, or something that they knew, but manipulated for effect.
And, while the number of inhabited planets in the Universe may be high... at least a few??? If we have no conceivable method to get to them, there is no reason to think they can get here. And, if they would arrive, that they would just be buzzing over our capital cities without any additional identifying information. The "saucer" has entered popular culture so much, but I have no doubt that it would be some other shape. Or, perhaps would have a conical component that is in space, and a more traditional atmospheric component that lands on earth.
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No one has even questioned why these lights over moscow where allowed to do what they did. If that was a Federal state, those things would have been chased by the Airforce.
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No one has even questioned why these lights over moscow where allowed to do what they did. If that was a Federal state, those things would have been chased by the Airforce.
Unless they were caused by the Airforce, in which case, Russia has a tendency to be a bit more quiet about the things.
Of course, in the height of the Cold War, someone did manage to land a Cessna in the middle of Red Square.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathias_Rust
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QC - not sure what the distinction means when you say "if that was a federal stated" - Russia is technically the Russian Federation and is a presidential/semi-presidential federal republic (even if some diplomats describe it as a mafia state). The Russian Airforce, although a bit clunky and much smaller than during the cold war is still around - five minutes is just not enough time to get fighters airborne and over large cities (unless they are already on maximum alert).
I live in an areas that constantly has planes over head and I have never seen the lights merge to form a single red blob - so I am not convinced on that explanation. But then London doesn't have the same atmospheric conditions as Moscow in December.
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I live in an areas that constantly has planes over head and I have never seen the lights merge to form a single red blob - so I am not convinced on that explanation. But then London doesn't have the same atmospheric conditions as Moscow in December.
I'll have to keep my eye out for distant aircraft and take some photos...
Maybe I've just been seeing aliens all this time [xx(]
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QC - not sure what the distinction means when you say "if that was a federal stated" - Russia is technically the Russian Federation and is a presidential/semi-presidential federal republic (even if some diplomats describe it as a mafia state). The Russian Airforce, although a bit clunky and much smaller than during the cold war is still around - five minutes is just not enough time to get fighters airborne and over large cities (unless they are already on maximum alert).
I live in an areas that constantly has planes over head and I have never seen the lights merge to form a single red blob - so I am not convinced on that explanation. But then London doesn't have the same atmospheric conditions as Moscow in December.
I meant an American Federal State.
Now, on the issue of their being no Aiforce deployed on the display of these most unusual lights, it leads me to believe that there is a possibility that the Russian Governement could be in cahoots with the intelligence behind the lights. The most probable scenario is that the Russian Gov where in fact behind the lights themselves, however, in light of knowing how serious the Russians take the UFO phenomenon, being responsible for one of the longest standing reports on the phenomenon might indicate, that the character of the Russian Gov does not fit into the criteria of hoaxes.
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I meant an American Federal State.
Presumably you really meant the USA which is a federation of states. I confess I'm a bit hazy about what Russia is these days.
A putinocracy run by putocrats perhaps?
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A putinocracy run by putocrats perhaps?
Your best pun for a long time [:D] [:D]
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The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people.
Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face. But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that... ghosts.
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The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people.
Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face. But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that... ghosts.
Out of a sense of fairness, when will pro-alien-UFO folks have egg on their face?
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The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people.
Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face. But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that... ghosts.
Out of a sense of fairness, when will pro-alien-UFO folks have egg on their face?
Maybe when the aliens land and say "we've never been here before"?
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The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people.
Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face. But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that... ghosts.
Out of a sense of fairness, when will pro-alien-UFO folks have egg on their face?
Maybe when the aliens land and say "we've never been here before"?
That would only be true if you could conclude that there were no other possible aliens that could have visited the planet.
Certainly you would ask the aliens if there are any UFO-ologists on their planet, and if they've ever been visited by aliens!!!
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The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people.
Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face. But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that... ghosts.
Out of a sense of fairness, when will pro-alien-UFO folks have egg on their face?
Maybe when the aliens land and say "we've never been here before"?
Would it be politically correct to even call them "aliens"? Maybe "milky wayfarers" would be more appropriate.
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The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people.
Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face. But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that... ghosts.
Out of a sense of fairness, when will pro-alien-UFO folks have egg on their face?
Maybe when the aliens land and say "we've never been here before"?
Would it be politically correct to even call them "aliens"? Maybe "milky wayfarers" would be more appropriate.
The INS, already has all the Alien registration forms.
Certainly they would require the Aliens to use and "official port of entry"
Bring a "Machine Readable Passport".
Demonstrate whether or not there is immigration intent.
And Obtain a Visa (preferably before entering the country).
The process can take years. In fact, all the aliens buzzing the planet could be merely waiting for the immigration lottery.
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I think they are UFC's (Unidentified flying clouds) except that YouTube video, which is obviously Rudolf off on his holidays to Siberia.
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The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people.
Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face. But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that... ghosts.
So I could easily say, that the locality of our nearby star systems still have a quantity of probability that we are not alone. In such a multitude of star systems which are in comparison to the entire universe, is still a great deal. You just require enough star systems - and as a solid arguement, as based on the amount of star systems round our local system, is in itself phenomenal. There is certainly plenty of room for more biological inhabitents.
Are we to be so selfish to think we have such an appropriate corner of the universe for life alone?
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The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people.
Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face. But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that... ghosts.
So I could easily say, that the locality of our nearby star systems still have a quantity of probability that we are not alone. In such a multitude of star systems which are in comparison to the entire universe, is still a great deal. You just require enough star systems - and as a solid arguement, as based on the amount of star systems round our local system, is in itself phenomenal. There is certainly plenty of room for more biological inhabitents.
Are we to be so selfish to think we have such an appropriate corner of the universe for life alone?
I don't think so. I think it's highly unlikely that Earth is unique in terms of life. However, I also think the probability that we will encounter intelligent life from another part of our galaxy before we manage to snuff ourselves out is incredibly small. (I also think that if we ever do, there will be little doubt about it.)
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If we can't get there...
Can they get here?
There can be some wonderful ideas in sci-fi. However, at this point there is no reason to believe that we will ever be able to surpass the speed of light.
That puts all but the nearest stars completely out of reach.
If we woke up one morning and tuned to AM-1605 and picked up a broadcast from Andromeda, we would just have to be content to sit back and listen to it.
If you received a cell phone call from Andromeda, it would be decidedly one-sided as you and all your grandchildren will be dust long before your greeting returned back to Andromeda.
And, it will be at least two million years until anybody on Andromeda picks up the first episode of Days of our Lives.
There are closer stars of course, but less than 100 within 20 light years.
At this point, the only conceivable spread of an alien race would be slow hopping from star system to nearby star system. But it would be a very slow process, and would unlikely be driven by purely economic motives.
So, the question remains:
If we can't get there...
Can they get here?
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And, it will be at least two million years until anybody on Andromeda picks up the first episode of Days of our Lives.
There are people in England who are yet to pick it up..
You are quite correct - the only physics that includes FTL is distinctly flakey. If we are bound to sub-luminal speed travel then perhaps the transit time will always prove too much - but I hope not.
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The day a disclosure on UFO's happen will be the day many rational people will be left looking like idiots.
If a flying saucer with little green men lands in front of the Capitol building, there will be many excited people.
Yes, if it turns out that they had been scouting Earth for years, many of us will have egg on our face. But in all likelihood, the majority of the "ghosts" that alien hunters have been chasing for the last half-century or more will remain just that... ghosts.
So I could easily say, that the locality of our nearby star systems still have a quantity of probability that we are not alone. In such a multitude of star systems which are in comparison to the entire universe, is still a great deal. You just require enough star systems - and as a solid arguement, as based on the amount of star systems round our local system, is in itself phenomenal. There is certainly plenty of room for more biological inhabitents.
Are we to be so selfish to think we have such an appropriate corner of the universe for life alone?
I don't think so. I think it's highly unlikely that Earth is unique in terms of life. However, I also think the probability that we will encounter intelligent life from another part of our galaxy before we manage to snuff ourselves out is incredibly small. (I also think that if we ever do, there will be little doubt about it.)
I never said earth was unique in terms of life. Unique in the sense we have a tiny part of the universe we call ''our'' corner.
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I don't think so. I think it's highly unlikely that Earth is unique in terms of life. However, I also think the probability that we will encounter intelligent life from another part of our galaxy before we manage to snuff ourselves out is incredibly small. (I also think that if we ever do, there will be little doubt about it.)
I never said earth was unique in terms of life. Unique in the sense we have a tiny part of the universe we call ''our'' corner.
Nor did I say that you did. I agree that it is most ulikely that there is anything very special about this part of the Universe.
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I've been trying to take some "UFO" pictures.
The problem is that it is right at the maximum limit of what my camera can take. My "movies" all turn out too dark. [:(] I guess I'll have to try a few minutes earlier to get slightly more dusk light.
[ Invalid Attachment ]
This was taken tonight, with the "UFO" clearly circled.
The problem is now asking someone to identify what I saw from a very grainy, long exposure photo would be impossible.
And, yes, this was "real". It was a moving object in the sky that I'm sure wasn't a meteorite (not fast enough). It appeared to be on a more or less straight path, to me, down and to the right until it disappeared behind the hill.
While the star photographed to the right may be of out of this world... I have no doubt the circled object was of terrestrial origin, but it could still be classified as "unidentified".
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I saw three lights, moving relative to each other in the night sky the other night. Most likely satallites, which is what you may have seen.
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But yes... I have seen some weird things in the sky at night. I cannot explain some of them.
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I'm thinking airplanes.
But, either satellites or airplanes.
Do satellites have lights? Blinking lights?
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No, they don't have blinking lights.
More to the point, if something can be readily identified (or indirectly identified which might be a better terminology), there should not be much reason to classify it as a UFO... but of course, if one does not wish to do this, then literally anything that passes our heads in the night sky is a UFO. I tend to catagorize my conclusions.
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The problem is that in modern society, if you live within 20 miles of a metro area.
Look up in the sky any time during the day (weather permitting) and you will see jet trails.
Look up in the sky at night, (weather permitting) and you will see lights crossing the sky.
One just must assume they are "normal"; airplanes, perhaps satellites, etc. I suppose an alien could be masquerading as a jumbo jet (except that the FAA SHOULD pick it up quickly).
My experimenting so far is that it is awfully hard to get a good evening photo. If the plane is more than a mile, or a few miles away, I can not separate lights. At dusk, I have to start slowing down my shutter speed (with little actual adjustment), so what may look visually distinct suddenly becomes blobs and streaks with unresolvable pixilation.
I certainly wouldn't expect someone to try to ascertain which direction is the nearest airport from a grainy evening photo from my back porch. A time stamp might tell one plane schedules, but mid-evening, there will be flights coming and going all the time.
One person might post a film on the internet of a distant rocket launch. The next might think it looks like an alien ship.
I bumped into a film recently.. "Alien strikes windmill".
And, there were neighborhood reports of strange lights on the hillside (which turned out to be birthday celebrations).
Apparently one of the blades just fell off due to a stress fracture (at least that is the official company line).
Look for what is "real" first, then supernatural later.
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The problem is that in modern society, if you live within 20 miles of a metro area.
Look up in the sky any time during the day (weather permitting) and you will see jet trails.
Look up in the sky at night, (weather permitting) and you will see lights crossing the sky.
One just must assume they are "normal"; airplanes, perhaps satellites, etc. I suppose an alien could be masquerading as a jumbo jet (except that the FAA SHOULD pick it up quickly).
My experimenting so far is that it is awfully hard to get a good evening photo. If the plane is more than a mile, or a few miles away, I can not separate lights. At dusk, I have to start slowing down my shutter speed (with little actual adjustment), so what may look visually distinct suddenly becomes blobs and streaks with unresolvable pixilation.
I certainly wouldn't expect someone to try to ascertain which direction is the nearest airport from a grainy evening photo from my back porch. A time stamp might tell one plane schedules, but mid-evening, there will be flights coming and going all the time.
One person might post a film on the internet of a distant rocket launch. The next might think it looks like an alien ship.
I bumped into a film recently.. "Alien strikes windmill".
And, there were neighborhood reports of strange lights on the hillside (which turned out to be birthday celebrations).
Apparently one of the blades just fell off due to a stress fracture (at least that is the official company line).
Look for what is "real" first, then supernatural later.
I remember that incident. I do believe it is this one you are referring to:
I prefer video evidence presenting raw data where the integrity of the footage cannot be questioned. A good video, but one where it is best to avoid commentary comes from here:
All of these videos where captured by NASA. Some of them are arguably explainable, some of them are a bit more tantalizing.
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In my opinion, the Circle of Africa as the first footage is called, is probably the best UFO tape caught by NASA. It is truely spectacular, especially as the last orb moves into the screen from the top, hovers down to earth settling into the exact position where it illuminates.
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http://ufotruth.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/what-nasas-drstory-musgrave-really-said-about-ufos/
Dr Musgrave and former astronaut talks of his sts-80 mission. He explains how he was in awe when he saw the footage of the craft coming out of the thunder storm.
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Cosmonaut Viktor (and I forget the second name) saw an intelligently controlled craft, took pictures and spoke to ground control... when arriving back to Earth, the pictures where taken by NASA, and the audio was never released.
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Call the Romulans and inform them that their cloaking devices are failing.
The thunderstorm video was wonderful.
However, I can't get too excited about semi-transparent orbs. Anything that is semi-transparent would seem to indicate to me that it is a reflection, play of lights, light artifact, or something.
I have no idea about the other objects. Some reports are of weather balloons. Thunder clouds are very dynamic.
The last issue is space junk.
20th and 21st century space junk will be the thorn in the side of 22nd century space travellers.
Much of what is being photographed seems to be small objects very close to the rockets and shuttles. I.E. Stuff they brought along with them. Ice, or whatever. Sharing their orbit is safe for the current mission, but could be deadly for the next.
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Call the Romulans and inform them that their cloaking devices are failing.
The thunderstorm video was wonderful.
However, I can't get too excited about semi-transparent orbs. Anything that is semi-transparent would seem to indicate to me that it is a reflection, play of lights, light artifact, or something.
I have no idea about the other objects. Some reports are of weather balloons. Thunder clouds are very dynamic.
The last issue is space junk.
20th and 21st century space junk will be the thorn in the side of 22nd century space travellers.
Much of what is being photographed seems to be small objects very close to the rockets and shuttles. I.E. Stuff they brought along with them. Ice, or whatever. Sharing their orbit is safe for the current mission, but could be deadly for the next.
You know.... If we managed to make metamaterials, objects would look transparent. We have already made many advances in this area, and cloking devices are already on the blueprints of many scientists who know such a thing is possible. Perhaps these objects are using metamaterials to appear ghostly.
But yes, the Circle of Africa is one amazing video.