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  4. why would a scientist accept the bible
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why would a scientist accept the bible

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Offline duffyd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #140 on: 07/04/2020 22:06:26 »
Quote from: jeffreyH on 07/04/2020 18:46:11
It wasn't god who separated the water, it was an angry troll called Gretchen. You have to believe in Gretchen or you'll be sent to Scunthorpe. It's in the book

Aye matey. A wonderful example of harassment ignored by the mods. Another example of targeting. It is your agenda to attack certain folks.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #141 on: 07/04/2020 22:10:09 »
Quote from: duffyd on 07/04/2020 22:06:26
Quote from: jeffreyH on 07/04/2020 18:46:11
It wasn't god who separated the water, it was an angry troll called Gretchen. You have to believe in Gretchen or you'll be sent to Scunthorpe. It's in the book

Aye matey. A wonderful example of harassment ignored by the mods. Another example of targeting. It is your agenda to attack certain folks.
Is it all humour you oppose, or only parody?

Seriously, if you look at that post you will see that it isn't an attack on you. It's an attack on what you believe.

That's an inevitable part of debate.
If you don't like it then you need to ask yourself what you are doing on a discussion forum.
« Last Edit: 07/04/2020 22:15:06 by Bored chemist »
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Offline duffyd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #142 on: 07/04/2020 22:12:43 »
Quote from: jeffreyH on 07/04/2020 18:46:11
Quote from: duffyd on 07/04/2020 13:04:40
Quote from: duffyd on 05/04/2020 01:42:38
How did they come up with this material?
“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”
Can you find comparable speeches anywhere that were composed before this was written for the N.T.?

Funny. Nothing. Why? Because the account is so extraordinary and unique no one could conceive of the things he said and did.

Let's bear in mind, the simple-minded believe we live in the universe and in the MW galaxy and a solar system in which a thermonuclear reactor hangs in freezing cold blackness millions of miles from a blue speck where living beasts possess a flesh and blood sponge that calculates how to send tons of inanimate pieces of tin a million miles away to observe that reactor churn and burn 600,000,000 million tons of hydrogen every second, yet it is inconceivable that GOD separated some water in a river

It wasn't god who separated the water, it was an angry troll called Gretchen. You have to believe in Gretchen or you'll be sent to Scunthorpe. It's in the book.
Another example of a warm contribution to the discussion made an outstanding lifetime member of Mensa.

Don't misunderstand. It is I who refuses to debate.
« Last Edit: 07/04/2020 22:25:13 by duffyd »
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Offline duffyd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #143 on: 07/04/2020 22:22:02 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 07/04/2020 13:08:01
Quote from: duffyd on 07/04/2020 13:04:40
yet it is inconceivable that GOD separated some water in a river
Not "inconceivable"- that's silly. The idea is obviously conceived by many.

Just unnecessary, and unevinced.

Why misrepresent things in that way?
Why bear false witness?
Why target people? Why not leave people alone? If I thought you were interested in an exchange of ideas, that you wanted a fair discussion without baiting, I would have been interested.
Why try to manipulate? Why do you refuse to address issues with an open mind and fairly? Why push your agenda onto others instead of trying to learn?
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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #144 on: 07/04/2020 22:48:57 »
@duffyd You want everyone else to believe in something you were told was true. Without any evidence. Because the grown ups that taught you that were the ones you thought you could trust implicitly.
That isn't going to happen. So, no matter how hard you try and however long you try, to beat them down with my your evangelising, some will just ignore you. Others will just laugh.
That is the way of the world. You may find some kindred souls but you share an affinity with the foil hat brigade. Just as misguided and just as dangerous to those with any sanity left.
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Offline jeffreyH

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #145 on: 07/04/2020 22:57:27 »
P.S. You don't need anyone's permission to be kind to others. If you have to rely on someone or something else to tell you how to treat people, then you are abdicating your own responsibility.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #146 on: 07/04/2020 23:18:49 »
Quote from: duffyd on 07/04/2020 21:59:47
I'd like to respond and point out that if you think he was a nice guy, you acknowledge that he lived and that we have a record of him.
I have no reason to doubt that he existed. As I said much earlier, he was a radical rabbi (addressed by his friends as such) who was killed for causing trouble. Nothing unusual about that, nor was the radical Judaism he preached beyond the very broad span of our ancient traditions.

From there on, your argument descends into pointless, unevidenced mystical ravings, which others have used as an excuse to perpetrate all sorts of evil deeds as previously listed, plus witch-burning, stoning schoolchildren whose parents worship the same god in a different building, and a whole host more.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #147 on: 07/04/2020 23:25:34 »
PS I met Gretchen in 1968, in Birmingham. No longer angry, or troll-like. In fact, decidedly mellow. Great days. And she never mentioned Scunthorpe.
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Offline duffyd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #148 on: 08/04/2020 01:11:56 »
And, nobody has a clue who said that as reporters tried to trip him up when he exploded onto the world stage.
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Offline duffyd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #149 on: 08/04/2020 05:21:22 »
It is always nice to see proof that the one attacking has no agenda. I guess it's their genuine openmindedness, their curious nature, their hunger for knowledge and willingness to judge everyone on their own merits. Then, again, some come across as closed minded bigots eager to pounce on others they have prejudged and despise before they know anything about them. Good thing we only have the former as you will see:

"@duffyd You want everyone else to believe in something you were told was true. Without any evidence. Because the grown ups that taught you that were the ones you thought you could trust implicitly.

That isn't going to happen. So, no matter how hard you try and however long you try, to beat them down with my your evangelising, some will just ignore you. Others will just laugh.

That is the way of the world. You may find some kindred souls but you share an affinity with the foil hat brigade. Just as misguided and just as dangerous to those with any sanity left."

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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #150 on: 08/04/2020 10:18:04 »
Quote from: duffyd on 07/04/2020 22:22:02
Quote from: Bored chemist on 07/04/2020 13:08:01
Quote from: duffyd on 07/04/2020 13:04:40
yet it is inconceivable that GOD separated some water in a river
Not "inconceivable"- that's silly. The idea is obviously conceived by many.

Just unnecessary, and unevinced.

Why misrepresent things in that way?
Why bear false witness?
Why target people? Why not leave people alone? If I thought you were interested in an exchange of ideas, that you wanted a fair discussion without baiting, I would have been interested.
Why try to manipulate? Why do you refuse to address issues with an open mind and fairly? Why push your agenda onto others instead of trying to learn?
I can't tell if that's bad editing, or intentionally dishonest.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #151 on: 08/04/2020 18:37:13 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 06/04/2020 08:37:43
Quote from: duffyd on 06/04/2020 05:34:40
To just give Him a shot. It is so simple and so profound.
And absurd.
You don't "choose" to believe something.
You can't choose to believe that I'm six foot six.
Either you believe it or you don't.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #152 on: 08/04/2020 23:16:32 »
I might pick a nit or two with you here, BC. Some Christians believe that Catholics are the spawn of Satan, some believe that of Protestants. Presumably they have a choice in this matter? They certainly have a choice as to how they act upon their belief. Or is sectarian violence part of Christian DNA?
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Offline Petrochemicals

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #153 on: 09/04/2020 03:14:48 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 08/04/2020 23:16:32
I might pick a nit or two with you here, BC. Some Christians believe that Catholics are the spawn of Satan, some believe that of Protestants. Presumably they have a choice in this matter? They certainly have a choice as to how they act upon their belief. Or is sectarian violence part of Christian DNA?
As far as I can tell catholics are sure they themselves are the spawn of satan, where as the protestants think that is self indulgent and they need to punish theselves for impure thoughts. About the same really.
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Offline duffyd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #154 on: 09/04/2020 03:51:34 »
"From there on, your argument descends into pointless, unevidenced mystical ravings, which others have used as an excuse to perpetrate all sorts of evil deeds as previously listed, plus witch-burning, stoning schoolchildren whose parents worship the same god in a different building, and a whole host more."

Now hold on just a minute! You think that's fair? You left out the Holocaust, burning innocent people alive, cannibalism, rape, drowning all infants that survived our pedophile's assaults, starving everyone, hanging innocent men for their clothing, stealing everything from everyone to sell for a profit, cutting up and roasting their bodies to use around campfires  to roasts marshmallows (And their tender body parts) and sing old boy scout songs, encouraging Jimbo Jones to commit mass murder/suicide, convincing Heavens Gate to keep buggering on, the assassination of JFK, instigating the Civil War, WW I, WW II, Korean War, Vietnam, The Revolutionary War, the massacre of the Indians, brainwashing Hitler to rid the world of Jewish people, Preaching to Stalin that 20,000,000 Russians had to go. Pushing pornography. I mean you barely got started listing our crimes.
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Offline duffyd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #155 on: 09/04/2020 04:13:06 »
Quote from: jeffreyH on 07/04/2020 22:57:27
P.S. You don't need anyone's permission to be kind to others. If you have to rely on someone or something else to tell you how to treat people, then you are abdicating your own responsibility.
Now dog gone it! Why didn't somebody tell me that before? I was ordered to be nice or I would be fined up to $2,000 a day.
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Offline syhprum

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #156 on: 09/04/2020 07:50:20 »
I believe JFK was killed by his bodyguard to prevent him starting a nuclear war
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #157 on: 09/04/2020 08:47:35 »
Quote from: alancalverd on 08/04/2020 23:16:32
I might pick a nit or two with you here, BC. Some Christians believe that Catholics are the spawn of Satan, some believe that of Protestants. Presumably they have a choice in this matter? They certainly have a choice as to how they act upon their belief. Or is sectarian violence part of Christian DNA?
Not really.
Did they choose to believe in the creed of Protestantism?
Were they indoctrinated into Catholicism?

Could you choose to believe that I am 6 foot six?
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #158 on: 09/04/2020 08:54:32 »
Quote from: duffyd on 09/04/2020 03:51:34
burning innocent people alive,
Yes. Part of the rich history of Christianity (Bruno, Tyndale (though they had the decency to strangle him first), Jeanne d'Arc, and too many witches to name here). And that's just victims within the faith. 

But your co-religionists can't take credit for all the rest of your silly rant.
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Offline alancalverd

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Re: why would a scientist accept the bible
« Reply #159 on: 09/04/2020 09:08:43 »
Quote from: Bored chemist on 09/04/2020 08:47:35
Did they choose to believe in the creed of Protestantism?Were they indoctrinated into Catholicism?
To the same extent that I choose to shop at Aldi or Waitrose. IIRC churches open their doors and invite people to sample the product before signing up with a loyalty card. FYI Aldi's economy bacon is better - take the advice of a Jew - but you get to fight with a better class of person over the last bog roll at Waitrose.
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Could you choose to believe that I am 6 foot six?
Yes. Or 3 foot 2. Belief is acceptance of a hypothesis in the absence of facts. The working hypothesis might be strengthened or demolished by a photograph, an independent and credible witness, or an actual meeting.

The hypothesis that you are the immaculately conceived son of the creator of the universe and at the same time all and part of the triune deity is too absurd for belief, and if we add in the properties of being simultaneously vengeful (OT) and forgiving (NT), it can only be accepted by faith, not belief.
« Last Edit: 09/04/2020 10:41:15 by alancalverd »
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