Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: sprite190582 on 23/06/2004 12:42:42
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<font color="blue">Nearly a year ago I was involved in a car crash where someone drove in to the back of my car wile I was stationary at approximately 45mph. I was taken to hospital on a spinal board with neck and back pain but luckily nothing was broken. I suffered some problems with my left arm/shoulder causing impaired sensations that has now been resolved with physiotherapy.
After the accident I had very very slight lower back pain when walking but it was so slight I didn’t bother wasting the doctor’s time with it. But it has gradually been getting worse and worse and I now find it very hard to even walk round a supermarket! On resting the pain subsides a grate deal. I have been examined by a GP and my physiotherapist who cannot find a reason for the pain.
Is it connected to the car accident? What could it be? X-Rays are clear!
I have been told by a friend who is a med student that the cause may never be found because the back is such a complicated thing? Can you recommend a painkiller? I am asthmatic and have problems with NSAIDS and I also don’t tolerate codeine very well.
Any help on what the pain may be would be most appreciated.
Thank you for taking the time to read this.[:)]</font id="blue">
Alex
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Alex....I'm so sorry for your terrible experience but am pleased that you seem to have made a great recovery.
I wish I could advise you on pain killers but I'm not one of the nice medical people here who I'm sure will come up with a few alternatives.
I know you said you have problems with NSAIDS, does that also include the rub in ointments ?....there are also things like Deep Heat and Ralgex...though I understand they are for muscular aches...which of course may be the cause. Have you considered seeing an Osteopath ?... I had mind numbing tear watering bad back ache and only an Osteopath could help cure it. Perhaps the accident changed the way that you actually position yourself and this may lead to bad posture which in turn may lead to the gradual onset of back ache....perhaps.
There are also things like back ache heat pads etc...but of course these are not cures just relievers of the symptoms.
From my experience, a really good Osteopath would be worth a try and perhaps your GP can refer you to one...failing that....they ususally charge around £30-£40 for an hour session.
I agree that the back is so complicated that it may be difficult to diagnose....but hopefully not impossible.
I do wish you better and hope that someone here will be able to help you....but consider the Osteopath...it's worked for me on two different occasions.
Good Luck
Neil
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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Alex, I had similar problems with my back. It would be fine most of the time, but walking would cause the muscles to tighten up, burn, and generally hurt like hell.
Here's what worked for me:
1) Losing weight. I had put on a good deal of weight in the year that the pain started getting serious. I dropped 40 pounds of so and it improved greatly. If you're not overweight, obviously this doesn't apply.
2) A good chiropractor can relieve the pain and help your condition improve. Choose carefully, look for a chiropractor that focuses more on the physical therepy and biophysics of the body rather than one that believes in that subluxation crap.
3) Stretching. Stretch several times a day. Focus on stretched that work the lower-to-mid back, buttocks, hips, and hamstrings. If all of those muscles are loose, you'll have a much easier time of it. If you don't know how to stretch, let me know, I'll tell you the ones I use that help.
Hope you get better soon.
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Thank you both for your fast reply. I have never tryed things such as deep heat so i think that I will give that a go, small amount just incase it affects my asthma, i would rather weeze for an hour than have the pain though :)
I am going to look in to seeing a chiropractor or osteopath.
Thanks again for your reply. I will continue to check my posting so if anyone has any more ideas please add them. Thanks
Alex
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Hi, the same thing happened to my cousin, she was in a similar accident, and her back pain gradually got worse and worse over the next few years to the point where the hospital staff all know her personally and she's now in a wheelchair and on vast amounts of medication. It took a long long time, but she's recently been diagnosed with fibromyalgia (I think through the hospitals arthritis specialists).
Fibromyalgia is basically pain and aching in the muscoskeletal system, and can be triggered by events such as a car crash. Unfortunately this is basically incurable, but a diagnosis means her lifestyle can be modified to enable her to cope with it, and she does seem to be showing signs of improvement.
Obviously i hope this isn't the case for you, and that you recover soon with all the suggestions already given, but if it doesn't it may be worthwhile bearing this in mind.
good luck
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Applying a heating pad before you stretch would be a good idea, as well.
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Alex,
I have a friend at work who has gone through much the same thing as you are: Serious car accident followed by slowly deterorating back. He went to chiropractors for several years, and they helped a lot, but did not stop the slow deterioration. Eventually, he got to the point of almost not being able to walk at all.
First, you need to see a specialist, not a GP. I have nothing againt GP doctors, but in my limited experience they tend to gloss over a lot.
Second, you probably need an MRI instead of an X-ray. The X-ray only shows the bone, while the MRI can show several different types of tissues, including the cartiledge between your bones. The specialist will know a lot more about this.
My friend ended up going to a specialist who did an MRI and diagnosed two "bulging discs" in his lower back. He had surgery and is now almost completely pain free and has started weight lifting again (I worry about this part, but that's his deal). The turnaround has been great to see.
Good luck!
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John - The Eternal Pessimist.
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John's right. The MRI is the gold standard for diagnosing back injuries. Second to that, please don't get your back "adjusted" until you know exactly what's wrong with it, and also remember that bulging discs can get better and worse all the time. If you're going to use heat, remember that moist heat is better. Stretching exercises would definitely be a help, but get the MRI and get a neurosurgeon or othopedist to tell you what's wrong. Avoid surgery at all costs and treat conservatively if possible, because a successful back surgery doesn't mean "no pain," it just means "less pain." If it's only disc usrgery you need, then the microdiscectomy is probably the way to go and avoid a big procedure. You can always get cut open later if the micro surgery doesn't work, but you might as well try that first.
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Thanks for all your postings, I have been refered to a physiotherapist, aparently the NHS is quite good at the moment, only a months wait but I think I am going to look in the the cost of a private assessment as I am finding it is getting harder to move (getting out of the bath is near impossible). This is an excellent site and I do really appreciate the advise and support.
Alex
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Good on ya Alex....please keep us all informed on your progress ..and don't be stranger eh ?...if you can see someone privately too then go for it.
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You should go and see your solicitor too to find out whether you can recover for the cost of treatment from the person who caused the accident (i.e sue them in negligence). It should make no difference whether you go private or chose the NHS.
"Crushing truths perish by being acknowledged." Albert Camus
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Uh Oh, the lawyers are here. Turning the world into a litigious mire.
When will people accept that accidents do occasionally happen, and move on, rather than suing the arse off someone who farted because the smell lead to a mometary lapse of concentration and the spillage of some coffee...etc etc ...sorry Claire, I know you are just acting in your own best interest, but encouraging people to sue each other just puts up the insurance premiums for all of us - including you - it's not 'free money' that miraculously makes a bad back get better, it just puts money in solicitors and lawyers pockets. It would be like me opening a private respiratory diseases centre and then going round encouraging people to smoke...[;)]
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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I don’t know if I want compensation or not, I would rather I just got better! But also in saying that I am having time off work due to the pain and I am only getting SSP which does not even cover my rent so I am digging in to savings which I feel is unfair. My car insurance company automatically got a law firm to contact me back in 2003 when the accident happened, the decision to go for compensation or not is up to me. If I am recovered in the next couple of week I don’t think I will bother, they have already paid up for my car which was written off. If I continue to be off sick due to my pain I may have to claim loss of earnings. Am I being unfair in doing this? All I want is someone to decide what is wrong so I can get back to doing what I enjoy. I am a very active person and do a job that requires lots of physical movement, no I am not an exotic dancer, I work with people at the sever end of the autistic spectrum with a lot of challenging behaviours so strength and the ability to move quickly is important in my job.
Alex
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quote:
Originally posted by chris
Uh Oh, the lawyers are here. Turning the world into a litigious mire.
When will people accept that accidents do occasionally happen, and move on, rather than suing the arse off someone who farted because the smell lead to a mometary lapse of concentration and the spillage of some coffee...etc etc ...sorry Claire, I know you are just acting in your own best interest, but encouraging people to sue each other just puts up the insurance premiums for all of us - including you - it's not 'free money' that miraculously makes a bad back get better, it just puts money in solicitors and lawyers pockets. It would be like me opening a private respiratory diseases centre and then going round encouraging people to smoke...[;)]
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
My solicitor will be in touch with you shortly Chris...reading your comment I felt in complete agreement with you....this left me feeling content..I haven't felt such contentment for a while and so this led to a feeling of uneasiness which I did not like.
Alex...in all seriousnous though, I personally don't see any reason why you should not try and claim for your loss of earnings at the very least....I'm sure Chris would probably agree with that rather than suing someone for all the money you can get !!.....................I reckon Chris was getting at the culture that we're inheriting from the States about suing everybodys arse off just because they looked at you the wrong way, which from what you say is not your intent. It's difficult to not notice the proliferation of adverts that have cropped up over the last few years urging people to 'seek compensation' from car accidents and falls etc etc. I do agree with Chris, I find that practice quite bitter. Wasn't there a case a while ago of a lady who successfully sued McDonalds for millions of dollars cos her coffee was too hot !!
A financial advisor (which I'm not) would probably suggest that you can get Insurance against Loss Of Earnings and Critical Illness, which might be worth considering when you get better, funds permitting of course.
But as you said, your getting better if far more important right now and we all wish you a speedy recovery.
'Men are the same as women...just inside out !' (https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.world-of-smilies.de%2Fhtml%2Fimages%2Fsmilies%2FSchilder2%2Finsanes.gif&hash=4f18432872d0188852a6f4a3170ec758)
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My wife was rear-ended a year ago. It barely scratched the paint off the bumper, but she got calls and letters from at four or five attorneys. Ridiculous.
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John - The Eternal Pessimist.
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Sorry Chris but to agree with Neil I think making someone accountable for their stupidity and carelessness in driving into a stationary car at 45 miles per hour and injuring an innocent person is perfectly justifiable and bares no comparison to the 'ambulance chasers' or american style hot coffee burn type scenarios. Loss spreading through increased premiums is a sad fact of life - but it might even encourage drivers to build up their no claims discount by driving carefully![;)] or join esure...i'm on the telly mum... grrrr hate that advert![}:)]
"Crushing truths perish by being acknowledged." Albert Camus
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I'm was not intending to belittle the problems encountered by sprite as a result of the accident described above, but merely to highlight the 'injustice' of our law in which solicitors and lawyers become the only winners.
But by encouraging a culture of litigation we all lose except the legal people - by paying higher insurance premiums, by paying huge legal bills, and by paying with our health and time as situations as resolved 'legally'.
Legal representatives are in a win / win situation. Win, lose or draw they get paid. Where's the motivation to ensure that costs are kept as low as possible for the client, and that the case is handled as effectively, efficiently and economically as it possibly could be ? Who audits legal representatives to ensure that clients are getting value for money ?
I remortgaged my house recently. I was shocked by the size of the bill for my 'conveyancing' and asked to see a price breakdown. I had been charged nearly 50 pounds for photocopying. At a conservative estimate of 5p per copy that's a thousand pages. Yet the documents were less than half an inch high - more like 20 - 30 pages at most. And that's just one example. Imaging how many 'copies' would be needed in a back-claim ?!
Legal action is merely legal theft.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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quote:
Originally posted by chris
I'm was not intending to belittle the problems encountered by sprite as a result of the accident described above, but merely to highlight the 'injustice' of our law in which solicitors and lawyers become the only winners.
But by encouraging a culture of litigation we all lose except the legal people - by paying higher insurance premiums, by paying huge legal bills, and by paying with our health and time as situations as resolved 'legally'.
Legal representatives are in a win / win situation. Win, lose or draw they get paid. Where's the motivation to ensure that costs are kept as low as possible for the client, and that the case is handled as effectively, efficiently and economically as it possibly could be ? Who audits legal representatives to ensure that clients are getting value for money ?
I remortgaged my house recently. I was shocked by the size of the bill for my 'conveyancing' and asked to see a price breakdown. I had been charged nearly 50 pounds for photocopying. At a conservative estimate of 5p per copy that's a thousand pages. Yet the documents were less than half an inch high - more like 20 - 30 pages at most. And that's just one example. Imaging how many 'copies' would be needed in a back-claim ?!
Legal action is merely legal theft.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
'no win, no fee' companies make it harder for solicitors to charge exorbetant fees now (unless you win)and has priced a lot of them out of the market you'll be pleased to know Chris. Whether they actually provide the best legal service is quite another issue and they make it easier for every man and his dog to bring a personal injury claim - fuelling litigation. I have to agree though that many solicitors charge through the roof. There is no denying that..... what you need is a lawyer in the family to charge you special rates.[;)]
There's a misconception that all lawyers earn a lot of money. Only in the cities does that really apply - and partners of law firms. If I train outside London, I could start on as little as £14,500 which ain't much considering the tens of thousands of pounds it is costing me to study law.
"Crushing truths perish by being acknowledged." Albert Camus
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Money (compensation) will not make my pain go away, that is for sure. It took me over an hour to get out of bed and put some clothes on today, didn’t make it to the shower, too painful)! Money will not change the fact that I am now a nervous passenger in a car; Money will not make me happy! Money will replace my savings which I have used to cover living expenses such as rent because I am only entitled to SSP as I have not been working for my employer for more than 5 years! (Plus I have just found out my contract is not being renewed in August). It is going to be pretty hard to look for a new job when walking from one room to another is so so painful. All I want is to get back to normal. My physio appointment is taking weeks and I just feel so tired, ache all over like the flu and feel like I am being stabbed with really hot knifes in the lower part of my back, hips, knees, neck and front and back of my shoulders, what the hell is going on in my body! To be frank I don't give a S**T about money (but I can see your points of view and if I did ask for compensation it would only be for loss of earnings – I can’t be bothered with the whole compensation for pain thing). I am 22 and my partner has to help me in and out the shower, how embarrassing. Anyone got any more thoughts on what’s up with me and how to gain a diagnosis and get treatment? Today I feel so fed up and angry that I just want to pick something up and throw it but I can’t, it hurts! Arrrgh. If this post seems like I am moaning or shouting at you all I apologise because that is not my intent and I do appreciate all your posts and support. If I felt better I would enjoy a debate about medical compensation after road traffic incidents.
Alex
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There are a series of tests (ie striaght leg raise)done for back injuries, and then CAT scans and MRI's confirm what you already suspect. I'm not a doc and I don't do much ortho, so maybe the doc could enlighten you more on this. You could at least get an idea of what's wrong. Here in the states, you would have gone to the doc immediately, and even if you didn't have insurance, you could have gone to a charity hospital. That being said, I would try moist heat, alternating with cold packs, and ibuprofen. And take the ibuprofen as directed for about four weeks, even if you become pain free, to keep the pain cycle broken. Obviously, avoid activities that exacerbate the pain. Over the counter at an animal feed store, you could try some DMSO. Originally used for horses on shin splints, it works well at relieving pain in people too. Good luck. Those back injuries are the pits.
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Alex.... Please see if you can see someone privately soon....also....either get your partner to take you down the hospital or you ring your GP to get him/her to come out and bloody well look after you !!...I'm pissed off for you , I really am, you're 22 and virtually disabled, hell !!..you bloody well are incapacitated !!.....it's not good enough to wait to see a physio for so long....get your partner to ring your GP and scream and shout at how bad you really are, say that you've got worse and insist that you be admitted for tests.........you've paid national Insurance , now it's time to get your moneys worth......failing that...call a locum out NOW !...I don't blame you for being angry at all...it must be soooo frustrating.....
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Sorry for going off topic Alex.....Neil is right. Wish I knew something about your problem but I don't I'm afraid, but it sounds so unfair to make you wait that long so I would shout louder till someone bloody well listens or go and see someone privately youself and worry about the cost later, if you can. I guess they must have already considered it being whiplash.
"Crushing truths perish by being acknowledged." Albert Camus
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Thank you for your support, I am going to book in with a private doctor today if I can and I will let you all know the out come as soon as I have one. Thanks.
Alex
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Money (compensation) will not make my pain go away, that is for sure. It took me over an hour to get out of bed and put some clothes on today, didn’t make it to the shower, too painful)! Money will not change the fact that I am now a nervous passenger in a car; Money will not make me happy! Money will replace my savings which I have used to cover living expenses such as rent because I am only entitled to SSP as I have not been working for my employer for more than 5 years! (Plus I have just found out my contract is not being renewed in August). It is going to be pretty hard to look for a new job when walking from one room to another is so so painful. All I want is to get back to normal. My physio appointment is taking weeks and I just feel so tired, ache all over like the flu and feel like I am being stabbed with really hot knifes in the lower part of my back, hips, knees, neck and front and back of my shoulders, what the hell is going on in my body! To be frank I don't give a S**T about money (but I can see your points of view and if I did ask for compensation it would only be for loss of earnings – I can’t be bothered with the whole compensation for pain thing). I am 22 and my partner has to help me in and out the shower, how embarrassing. Anyone got any more thoughts on what’s up with me and how to gain a diagnosis and get treatment? Today I feel so fed up and angry that I just want to pick something up and throw it but I can’t, it hurts! Arrrgh. If this post seems like I am moaning or shouting at you all I apologise because that is not my intent and I do appreciate all your posts and support. If I felt better I would enjoy a debate about medical compensation after road traffic incidents /.
Alex
In this time of affirmative action and women’s rights, many great strides have been made to attempt to dissolve the differences between the people of the United States, but there is one glaring example of discrimination that still exists…age discrimination in auto insurance.
Based off a drivers age, a driver under 25 is charged more for insurance than a driver over 25 (information from wesettle.com) even if they have the same number of speeding tickets and were involved in the same number of accidents. Why is this type of discrimination any different than racial or gender-based discrimination?
I have written to many people about this issue and almost all of them responded with one of two responses:
1) There is no law forbidding discrimination by age. I find it hard to believe that any good American citizen would actually accept this as a reason to be discriminated against. What if the slaves were told that they had to remain slaves because there was no law against slavery? Or if women could never vote? The constitution of the Unites States is not a static, unchanging set of laws. Look back through history and see all the amendments and additions that have changed the constitution throughout the years. Just because something is not against the law does not mean that it is the correct and most just way to do things.
2) Insurance rates are based of off actuarial statistics. This answer itself admits that the insurance rates are discriminatory. According to the Merriam Webster dictionary to discriminate is “to make a difference in treatment or favor on a basis other than individual merit.” Using statistics to determine rates is anything but individual merit! Furthermore, insurance companies could very easily compile “actuarial statistics” to show which gender or race got into more accidents, but if they tried to base the rates off of these statistics it would not sit too well with the American public.
The technology exists today to have every accident and speeding ticket sent directly into a national database that could be accessed by all insurance companies. That is why I propose that insurance rates be based strictly off of driving record and the age and type of car you own…these are the only two factors that are based in fact, and not generalized statistics. If the insurance companies’ statistics are accurate people under 25 will still pay higher insurance because they will be involved in more accidents, and the same would apply to people that live in “high risk” cities, at least everyone would start on a level playing field. What do you think?