Naked Science Forum
Life Sciences => Physiology & Medicine => Topic started by: scientizscht on 20/03/2019 13:27:38
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Hello
I believe oxygen from lungs flows through blood into red cells and is stored in hemoglobin.
What is that rate for a red cell?
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About once per breath.
You should probably stop asking questions that don't have a meaningful answer.
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About once per breath.
You should probably stop asking questions that don't have a meaningful answer.
You cannot know if the answer is meaningful or not.
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About once per breath.
You should probably stop asking questions that don't have a meaningful answer.
You cannot know if the answer is meaningful or not.
I am glad you found my answer meaningful.
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About once per breath.
You should probably stop asking questions that don't have a meaningful answer.
You cannot know if the answer is meaningful or not.
I am glad you found my answer meaningful.
Unfortunately, your answer is not an answer to my question.
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About once per breath.
You should probably stop asking questions that don't have a meaningful answer.
You cannot know if the answer is meaningful or not.
I am glad you found my answer meaningful.
Unfortunately, your answer is not an answer to my question.
Yes it was.
Unfortunately, your question has no meaningful answer.
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The rate of diffusion is going to depend on different factors. The rate of oxygen diffusing into the cell is going to be highest when the cell has no oxygen in it and would become slower over time as it accumulates more and more oxygen. The inverse would be true as well, where a red cell fully saturated with oxygen will lose oxygen slower and slower as oxygen flows out of it. This study might be helpful: https://www.pnas.org/content/112/32/9984
Looking at Figure 2B, it seems that a red blood cell at 100% oxygen saturation falls down to near 0% saturation over a period of about 5 seconds when the blood is exposed to a completely anoxic environment. This page suggests that a single red blood cell can contain about 1.08 billion molecules of oxygen: https://www.quora.com/How-many-hemoglobin-proteins-are-there-in-a-single-red-blood-cell
So you could say that the average rate of diffusion is about 216 million molecules per second. However, that is not a realistic number for normal breathing, since we breathe in an atmosphere with 21% oxygen. It would be much lower than that rate normally.
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About once per breath.
You should probably stop asking questions that don't have a meaningful answer.
You cannot know if the answer is meaningful or not.
I am glad you found my answer meaningful.
Unfortunately, your answer is not an answer to my question.
Yes it was.
Unfortunately, your question has no meaningful answer.
You cannot know that. The answer to my question may save numerous lives one day.
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What is that rate for a red cell?
It depends.
How is "it depends" going to save lives?
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What is that rate for a red cell?
It depends.
How is "it depends" going to save lives?
Well everything depends. But when they ask you what is the temperature of human body, you don't answer it depends. You say around 36.6C. Of course it depends if you have infection etc. But you get what I mean.
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On average the answer is pretty close to zero.
Every cell picks up oxygen, but also loses it. The flow is positive on the way in and negative on the way out.
It does that many times so the average flow of oxygen is zero and so the rate is zero.
This fact is too obvious to save many lives.
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On average the answer is pretty close to zero.
Every cell picks up oxygen, but also loses it. The flow is positive on the way in and negative on the way out.
It does that many times so the average flow of oxygen is zero and so the rate is zero.
This fact is too obvious to save many lives.
I didn't say about the loss rate. I am talking about the influx rate. I appreciate it is a curve until saturation but an average or maximum would be indicative.
And I don't think red cells lose oxygen in lungs. They lose CO2. The average oxygen diffision in red cells in lungs is not zero. They refill in lungs, so it's definitely positive.
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What problem are you trying to solve?
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What problem are you trying to solve?
Sorry this is getting out of topic.
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Asking why you want to know something is not "off topic" especially when the "something" is so poorly defined as to be effectively unanswerable.
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Asking why you want to know something is not "off topic" especially when the "something" is so poorly defined as to be effectively unanswerable.
I cannot reveal for obvious reasons. I just need a graph or a number. The reasons behind my questions are varied and not something I want to share.
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I cannot reveal for obvious reasons.
I have to admit, it isn't obvious to me.
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I just need a graph or a number.
Have you noticed that you already have a few numbers?
About once per breath.
about 216 million molecules per second
pretty close to zero.
And I don't think red cells lose oxygen in lungs
True.
Do you remember what question you asked?
"What is the rate of oxygen diffusion inside red cells?"
No mention of lungs.
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Well I did mention from lungs. Anyway, not all have great communication skills.
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Well I did mention from lungs. Anyway, not all have great communication skills.
Great.
Now all you need to do is work out how you will use the three numbers you have.
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I only got a nearly zero.
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I only got a nearly zero.
Really?
Other people reading the thread got
About once per breath.
red blood cell at 100% oxygen saturation falls down to near 0% saturation over a period of about 5 seconds when the blood is exposed to a completely anoxic environment.
which is roughly the same time
And about 216 million molecules per second
How come you only got one number?
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Somehow I missed them when reading on my small mobile.
Is the 218 accurate?
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Somehow I missed them when reading on my small mobile.
Is the 218 accurate?
No.
Especially if you miss off the million.
The best estimates you will get are order of magnitude, so it's probably closer to 100,000,000 per second than to 10,000,000 or 1,000,000,000
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If it helps, 216 million oxygen molecules per second would be equivalent to 3.587 x 10-16 moles per second or 1.148 x 10-14 grams per second (0.01148 picograms per second).
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Of course, you could assume that, because a blood cell is mainly water, the diffusion in a cell will be similar to that in water.
In which case you can simply google it
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/diffusion-coefficients-d_1404.html
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Of course, you could assume that, because a blood cell is mainly water, the diffusion in a cell will be similar to that in water.
In which case you can simply google it
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/diffusion-coefficients-d_1404.html
You ignore the cell membrane?