Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Chemistry => Topic started by: Make it Lady on 17/01/2009 17:40:31
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I am treated like I am a smoker or a seal clubber if I ask for a plastic bag in a supermarket but is this really the worst thing chemists ever invented and can chemistry take the green high ground in other ways?
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I would have thought that napalm, agent orange or bacterial/chemical weapons would rate hgher.
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You tell that to the check out ladies at Waitrose.
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I see that they have developed organic liquids which can capture greenhouse gases (http://www.rsc.org/Publishing/ChemTech/Volume/2008/09/carbon_dioxide_capture.asp)
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As far as plastic bags are concerned, plastics have touched our lives in countless ways so there are always benefits as well as its disadvantages. In the future, I think one day plastics will be totally beneficial to all of us.
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There are also rocks to soak up carbon dioxide (http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2008/November/07110802.asp)
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The biodegradable plastics were developed by chemists.
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So why don't they make shopping carrier bags from biodegradable plastic?
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There are also rocks to soak up carbon dioxide (http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2008/November/07110802.asp)
Don't mention rocks we might get Geologists on here.
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This is the kind of thing I was after, thanks chem4, I knew I could count on you.
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What kind of biodegradable do you mean? The kind that just falls apart to be pieces too small for humans to get upset about, or the kind that uses non-petrochemical materials and is actually compostable (= digestible by microorganisms)? If there is such a thing as the latter.
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I think the latter...
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So why don't they make shopping carrier bags from biodegradable plastic?
According to a site in NZ:
Biodegradable plastic bags and packaging aren't an end solution to replacing non-degradable plastic bags in supermarkets and retails stores for the following reasons:
•They do not decompose in properly managed landfills.
•They support the throwaway mindset and the use of landfills as an acceptable disposal method
•They do not discourage over-use in the first place.
http://www.zerowaste.co.nz/default,475.sm
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There was also this: [8D]
Bioplastics and biodegradable plastics have long been controversial. Manufacturers like to portray them as a magic-bullet solution to the problem of plastics that won't go away. Bioplastics, for example, are touted as saving 30-80 percent of the greenhouse gas emissions you'd get from normal plastics and they can give food longer shelf-life in stores. But here are some of the drawbacks:
•When some biodegradable plastics decompose in landfills, they produce methane gas. This is a very powerful greenhouse gas that adds to the problem of global warming.
•Biodegradable plastics and bioplastics don't always readily decompose. Some need relatively high temperatures and, in some conditions, can still take many years to break down. Even then, they may leave behind toxic residues.
•Bioplastics are made from plants such as corn and maize, so land that could be used to grow food for the world is being used to "grow plastic" instead. By 2014, almost a quarter of US grain production is expected to be turned over to biofuels and bioplastics production, potentially causing a significant rise in food prices.
Some bioplastics, such as PLA, are made from genetically modified corn. Most environmentalists consider GM (genetic modification) crops to be inherently harmful to the environment.
•Bioplastics and biodegradable plastics cannot be easily recycled. To most people, PLA looks very similar to PET (polyethylene terephthalate) but, if the two are mixed up in a recycling bin, the whole collection becomes impossible to recycle. There are fears that increasing use of PLA may undermine existing efforts to recycle plastics.
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/bioplastics.html
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Why not try and make some Make it Lady? [:)]
A recipe for PLA bioplastics
1)Take some corn kernels (lots of them).
2)Process and mill them to extract the dextrose (a type of sugar) from their starch.
3)Use fermenting vats to turn the dextrose into lactic acid.
4)In a chemical plant, convert the lactic acid into lactide.
5)Polymerize the lactide to make long-chain molecules of polylactide acid (PLA).
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/bioplastics.html
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There appears to be a better recipe here (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Potato-Plastic!/) [:P] [:P] [:P] [:P]
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There appears to be a better recipe here (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Potato-Plastic!/) [:P] [:P] [:P] [:P]
That is a fine video! Is this stuff water resistant?
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There appears to be a better recipe here (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Potato-Plastic!/) [:P] [:P] [:P] [:P]
That is a fine video! Is this stuff water resistant?
No, which might be a problem if you are carrying your groceries home and it rains.
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There appears to be a better recipe here (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Potato-Plastic!/) [:P] [:P] [:P] [:P]
That is a fine video! Is this stuff water resistant?
No, which might be a problem if you are carrying your groceries home and it rains.
Or use it to make bags to pick up dog poop.
My groceries go into backpacks or canvas bags.
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Chemists did not invent the plastic bag - they invented plastics.
Science should be morally neutral and scientists should not be held responsible for the uses to which their inventions are put.
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Did they invent plastics or did they discover plastics?
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Where were they that they could be discovered?
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What is your definition of plastic?
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Okay, just forget that I ever asked the question, I don't know what I was thinking when I posed it... [::)] [::)] [::)] [::)] [:I] [:I] [:I]
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Why not try and make some Make it Lady? [:)]
A recipe for PLA bioplastics
1)Take some corn kernels (lots of them).
2)Process and mill them to extract the dextrose (a type of sugar) from their starch.
3)Use fermenting vats to turn the dextrose into lactic acid.
4)In a chemical plant, convert the lactic acid into lactide.
5)Polymerize the lactide to make long-chain molecules of polylactide acid (PLA).
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/bioplastics.html
I used to work for ICI so this is not as funny as it sounds. I've made loads of stuff in my working life. I really liked making tablets apart from the dust but making sterile injections in a pilot lab was a real drag.
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There appears to be a better recipe here (http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Potato-Plastic!/) [:P] [:P] [:P] [:P]
That is a fine video! Is this stuff water resistant?
No, which might be a problem if you are carrying your groceries home and it rains.
Or use it to make bags to pick up dog poop.
My groceries go into backpacks or canvas bags.
I have lots of these bags but find myself halfway around the supermarket and realise they are in my car. The problem that I have with this is that when I remember my re-usable bag it gets loaded full of overpackaged food. Recycling is a drop in the ocean when it comes to reducing your carbon footprint. I'm sure that being a veggie and not flying all over the place is much better.
So what other green inventions are Chemists working on?
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UK should value good science as Obama administration does (http://www.rsc.org/AboutUs/News/PressReleases/2009/FoodReportLaunch.asp)
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Okay, so that isn't anything green, let me try and find some. [:P] [:P]
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Is it just my imagination or are there very few chemists on this forum. MIL and chem4 are very lonely.
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Aha! How about Gallium and uranium join forces (http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2008/December/23120801.asp)
An area of great interest to chemists looking for better ways to clean up nuclear waste.
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Is it just my imagination or are there very few chemists on this forum. MIL and chem4 are very lonely.
Do you know how many there are? Exactly?
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Shocking as it may seem, I'm a chemist.
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I'm
Spartacus a chemist.
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I'm Spartacus a chemist.
No! I'm Spartacus a chemist.
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I'm Spartacus a chemist.
No! I'm Spartacus a chemist.
Yes, that lot are chemists Spartacus, not me!!!
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Worst thing chemists ever invented............... Hmmmmmmmmm.............. Let me see............ Ermmm------ Boots???
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Worst thing chemists ever invented............... Hmmmmmmmmm.............. Let me see............ Ermmm------ Boots???
*boots the Spartacus chemist*
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They are Pharmacists that use the word Chemist because all Pharmacists did pharmacy because they weren't quite clever enough to study Chemistry. That is what I tell my husband anyway!
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Aha! How about Gallium and uranium join forces (http://www.rsc.org/chemistryworld/News/2008/December/23120801.asp)
An area of great interest to chemists looking for better ways to clean up nuclear waste.
Don't you just love s,p hybrid bonding. I love the s-ness as much as I love the p-ness.
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What the heck is a Spartacus? Really?
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In the film Spartacus, right at the end, the Roman general says to the captured gladiator army that if Spartacus gives himself up then the rest of them could go free. So Spartacus (Kirk Douglas) stands up and says "I'm Spartacus".
As they're all good public school chaps at heart another one stands up and says "No, I'm Spartacus" and so on 'til they're all yelling "I'm Spartacus". And then they all get get crucified. [xx(] The End.
They don't make them like that anymore.
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WoW [:o] [;D] [:D] [:D] That sounds like the worse movie ever made!
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WoW [:o] [;D] [:D] [:D] That sounds like the worse movie ever made!
So you've never seen The Greatest Story Ever Told?
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No, of course not! What am I? Some kind of movie geek/nerd? [;D] [;D]
But please....blow me over with all the details of the worst movie ever made.
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It's a long story but this may give you some idea:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=c4Qaj_IB-NE
To be fair it was 'of it's time'.
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That got 5 Academy Award Nominations!!! Is that good or bad? [:D]
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Di
That got 5 Academy Award Nominations!!! Is that good or bad? [:D]
Did they put them in one plastic bag or five separate plastic bags???
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I think they put it in a lead envelope.
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Sorry to possibly be a party pooper and direct away from Spartacus and other fun chit chat, but after a long time of thinking I did find something worse than plastic bags that chemists may have invented. Even if they probably only invented the plastic and some engineer/inventor came up with the idea of making it into bags and marketing specialists found it a good idea to give them away for free.
At least this may be food for thought and discussion:
If human overpopulation and the increase of living standard of millions and millions of people beyond what is sustainable are huge problems, one could argue that having helped to increase the number of human beings with synthetic, energy intense, and petrochemical based fertilizers and pesticides and their wide-spread and unsustainable use has been a really bad invention for our species. Many people lived who could not have, millions became fat and overfed, millions more want to live like them now (and you can't blame them), and our environment will not tolerate this much longer.
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Well, you can hardly blame them.
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That's what wars are for - anyway, disposable nappies are worse than plastic bags.
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What about undisposable periodic tables? I've got one of those! [:I]
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Sorry to possibly be a party pooper and direct away from Spartacus and other fun chit chat, but after a long time of thinking I did find something worse than plastic bags that chemists may have invented. Even if they probably only invented the plastic and some engineer/inventor came up with the idea of making it into bags and marketing specialists found it a good idea to give them away for free.
At least this may be food for thought and discussion:
If human overpopulation and the increase of living standard of millions and millions of people beyond what is sustainable are huge problems, one could argue that having helped to increase the number of human beings with synthetic, energy intense, and petrochemical based fertilizers and pesticides and their wide-spread and unsustainable use has been a really bad invention for our species. Many people lived who could not have, millions became fat and overfed, millions more want to live like them now (and you can't blame them), and our environment will not tolerate this much longer.
Yes good point. I guess people thought they were doing good. A lot of inventions and innovations were brought into existence without the benefit of a crystal ball.
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That's what wars are for - anyway, disposable nappies are worse than plastic bags.
Yes but anyone who has had a baby would find it hard to go back and use the terry version. The only way to do it is to ban disposable nappies.
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The only way to do it is to ban disposable nappies.
Or ban babies!!!
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Sorry to possibly be a party pooper and direct away from Spartacus and other fun chit chat, but after a long time of thinking I did find something worse than plastic bags that chemists may have invented. Even if they probably only invented the plastic and some engineer/inventor came up with the idea of making it into bags and marketing specialists found it a good idea to give them away for free.
At least this may be food for thought and discussion:
If human overpopulation and the increase of living standard of millions and millions of people beyond what is sustainable are huge problems, one could argue that having helped to increase the number of human beings with synthetic, energy intense, and petrochemical based fertilizers and pesticides and their wide-spread and unsustainable use has been a really bad invention for our species. Many people lived who could not have, millions became fat and overfed, millions more want to live like them now (and you can't blame them), and our environment will not tolerate this much longer.
Yes good point. I guess people thought they were doing good. A lot of inventions and innovations were brought into existence without the benefit of a crystal ball.
I am afraid in many cases decisions were made despite knowing better. That has nothing to do with a crystal ball, that has to do with priorities. And human nature (if there is such thing).
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Well, you can hardly blame them.
Whom? The people who received the miracle products or those who made them?
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That's what wars are for - anyway, disposable nappies are worse than plastic bags.
Wars increase human population. I read this somewhere. After every war the drop in population increases beyond what would have been without the war.
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Well, you can hardly blame them.
Whom? The people who received the miracle products or those who made them?
A bit of both.
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That's what wars are for - anyway, disposable nappies are worse than plastic bags.
Wars increase human population. I read this somewhere. After every war the drop in population increases beyond what would have been without the war.
Now there is something I would never have guessed!
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The number of pregnancies in world war II Britain certainly went up. All that saying goodbye to boyfriends and husbands you thought you would never see again. Then they returned and, well, you have to celebrate.
If you have lost someone you certainly want a new life to give you hope and something to live for. Also being close to death makes you realise what is important and family is high on the list.