Naked Science Forum
General Discussion & Feedback => Just Chat! => Topic started by: Jimbee on 11/04/2024 15:12:43
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I have a question about an ancient pronounciation. The ancient Roman V. IOW, the V in classical Latin.
Language books on classical Latin say that their V used to be pronounced like our W. Then, perhaps around Medieval times (?), they started pronouncing it like our modern V.
Actually W has an interesting story. They needed it to represent a new sound that developed by or around the early Middle Ages. Dictionaries today say that is the sound we associate now with W. But on another message board, they said it was actually a different sound, usually represented by "bh" in other languages. (W is of course just two V's tied together.)
This other message board was vague on how V was pronounced in ancient Rome. They said probably as a V or W sound. So which is it.? And while were at it, the V and W sound. Which is older? And when did each develop in Europe?
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Veni, vidi, vici would then sound a bit less dramatic. Bottom line, I don't know. Alan might give us his opinion, he has a better grasp of latin than me. After my generation latin became a fringe subject.
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Could i have a link to the other forum please?
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Could i have a link to the other forum please?
It was the Straight Dope Message Boards:
https://boards.straightdope.com/ (https://boards.straightdope.com/)
I got banned a couple of years ago, even though I was a paying charter member, or I thought I was. They said I was banned because I was being too nice to Elton John, among other things. I don't know if the thread is still there. I think they even took some of my threads down. I was Jim_B. I could check later if you want. But I tend to avoid those boards now unless I absolutely have to go there. (Some activity there, since then, suggests that wasn't the exact reason I got banned. I'll leave it at that.)
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Could i have a link to the other forum please?
Also on providing links here. If it's common knowledge, you don't have to. Right? And plus if you can't remember, maybe just ask other boardmembers to do a (little) digging for you?
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Could i have a link to the other forum please?
Also on providing links here. If it's common knowledge, you don't have to. Right? And plus if you can't remember, maybe just ask other boardmembers to do a (little) digging for you?
True enoughCould i have a link to the other forum please?
It was the Straight Dope Message Boards:
https://boards.straightdope.com/ (https://boards.straightdope.com/)
I got banned a couple of years ago, even though I was a paying charter member, or I thought I was. They said I was banned because I was being too nice to Elton John, among other things. I don't know if the thread is still there. I think they even took some of my threads down. I was Jim_B. I could check later if you want. But I tend to avoid those boards now unless I absolutely have to go there. (Some activity there, since then, suggests that wasn't the exact reason I got banned. I'll leave it at that.)
Did monty python get mentioned perhaps? It sounds like a send up to me
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I was taught Latin with the then-fashionable "W" pronunciation, which certainly made the spoken language mellifluous, but I can't see any connection with modern Italian or French - I haven't eaten wolauwonts in Wenice, for instance.
But the letters U and W do not appear in Roman script, and it's almost certain that both short and long U sounds were part of the spoken language, all represented by V, so anyone's guess is as good as any other.
Not that Latin is unique in this respect. The motor vehicle that anglophones call a "vee doubleyou" is made in a factory known as "fah vey" to its workers, and the spelling of Lowland Scots words generally represents the sound made by a Scot if they are pronounced as written, by an Englishman.
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Italian 'V' is softer than the english in my opinion.
https://sco.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Higgins
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There's no mention of Higgins being fluent in Italian. Most of the time he was simultaneously incoherent in English and Irish.
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There's no mention of Higgins being fluent in Italian. Most of the time he was simultaneously incoherent in English and Irish.
True, i just thought it would be good for a look at the scots wikipedia.