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All processes no matter what use useful energy to do work and result in the remaining energy being of less use. This is the arrow of time and it is called entropy.
ÆthelwulfI would be quite happy to answer all of your questions if we were at least on the same page but we are not.At the start of your first post in this thread you say"First of all, there is no such thing as an arrow of time."Yes there is it's called entropy.All processes no matter what use useful energy to do work and result in the remaining energy being of less use. This is the arrow of time and it is called entropy.A simple example, a clock any type of clock, all types of clock use energy to tell the time. If we consider the clock to be a closed system then entropy within that system has increased with the passage of time.I believe that is so self evident it requires no further explanation. If we cannot at least agree that there is an arrow of time then we are not likely to agree on anything to do with time.
Quote from: MikeS on 27/03/2012 09:30:03ÆthelwulfI would be quite happy to answer all of your questions if we were at least on the same page but we are not.At the start of your first post in this thread you say"First of all, there is no such thing as an arrow of time."Yes there is it's called entropy.All processes no matter what use useful energy to do work and result in the remaining energy being of less use. This is the arrow of time and it is called entropy.A simple example, a clock any type of clock, all types of clock use energy to tell the time. If we consider the clock to be a closed system then entropy within that system has increased with the passage of time.I believe that is so self evident it requires no further explanation. If we cannot at least agree that there is an arrow of time then we are not likely to agree on anything to do with time.Well, why haven't you refuted any statement like I have done with you?
Quote from: MikeS on 27/03/2012 09:30:03All processes no matter what use useful energy to do work and result in the remaining energy being of less use. This is the arrow of time and it is called entropy.That depends on your definition of useful and useless. I reckon photovoltaic cells and chlorophyll cells are doing a pretty good job at making energy more useful
''We could measure the speed of light in the vacuum anywhere in the Universe and it would be the same. We can therefore use c as a clock. I would suggest the Universes master clock. ''I don't know what you mean by this, but if there is any relevance, there is no such thing as an absolute clock.I never said there was but you could do an average of all local clocks.''Why does light when unrestricted travel at infinite speed?''I don't know if the photon's speed is exactly infinite, but if I get to the just of the point, it is because of the physical parameters of spacetime, called it's permittivity and permeability. We haveFor a massless particle, this moves at the speed of light. Light within the universe is not unrestricted. It has curved space-time to deal with.''Having established that Time has two aspects, the arrow and time dilation factor.''I'm afraid you haven't for me. I accept dilation is an effect we measure using time, but time is only an instrument of measure. It was invented. It's not real. It only applies to our perception which seems to feel some ''flow of time''. Time doesn't even have a flow in physics.Strange then that clocks can measure it.''Energy makes the clock run faster, gravity slows it down.''In what sense, because when I think of energy, I think of relativistic particles. Their frames of references are dilated as well. Yes their frames of reference are dilated as well. That's what local time is. Where I have said faster or slower that's in reference to a distant frame of reference.''For time to 'flow' energy must be consumed. No consumption of energy, no flow of time.''Again, I don't know what you mean. What is meant by consumption? That is an odd way to me to look at physical processes.Consumed is perhaps a poor choice of words, used would be more appropriate.''Time and gravity are so closely interwoven that it is impossible to talk about one without the other. ''It's perfectly possible to talk about gravity without time.Gravity affects time. Gravity is acceleration, an acceleration in time.You can talk about gravity without time but you cannot explain gravity without time.
Quote from: Æthelwulf on 26/03/2012 10:01:26''We could measure the speed of light in the vacuum anywhere in the Universe and it would be the same. We can therefore use c as a clock. I would suggest the Universes master clock. ''I don't know what you mean by this, but if there is any relevance, there is no such thing as an absolute clock.I never said there was but you could do an average of all local clocks.''Why does light when unrestricted travel at infinite speed?''I don't know if the photon's speed is exactly infinite, but if I get to the just of the point, it is because of the physical parameters of spacetime, called it's permittivity and permeability. We haveFor a massless particle, this moves at the speed of light. Light within the universe is not unrestricted. It has curved space-time to deal with.''Having established that Time has two aspects, the arrow and time dilation factor.''I'm afraid you haven't for me. I accept dilation is an effect we measure using time, but time is only an instrument of measure. It was invented. It's not real. It only applies to our perception which seems to feel some ''flow of time''. Time doesn't even have a flow in physics.Strange then that clocks can measure it.''Energy makes the clock run faster, gravity slows it down.''In what sense, because when I think of energy, I think of relativistic particles. Their frames of references are dilated as well. Yes their frames of reference are dilated as well. That's what local time is. Where I have said faster or slower that's in reference to a distant frame of reference.''For time to 'flow' energy must be consumed. No consumption of energy, no flow of time.''Again, I don't know what you mean. What is meant by consumption? That is an odd way to me to look at physical processes.Consumed is perhaps a poor choice of words, used would be more appropriate.''Time and gravity are so closely interwoven that it is impossible to talk about one without the other. ''It's perfectly possible to talk about gravity without time.Gravity affects time. Gravity is acceleration, an acceleration in time.You can talk about gravity without time but you cannot explain gravity without time.Gravity is acceleration. One of the components of acceleration is time. If time were not real there would not be gravity. How would you account for gravity if time is not real?
A photon's speed is not infinite. In mathematical rigour it is a finite number called the Celeritas. There are no infinities contained in the equations, therefore it's speed cannot be infinite. And for the clock thing, clocks are designed? Why is this so hard to understand? Man invented clocks to tick away completely subliminal durations we called ''time''. The very fact that you even brought clocks into this does not even persuade me to continue further.
Quote from: Æthelwulf on 27/03/2012 17:01:20A photon's speed is not infinite. In mathematical rigour it is a finite number called the Celeritas. There are no infinities contained in the equations, therefore it's speed cannot be infinite. And for the clock thing, clocks are designed? Why is this so hard to understand? Man invented clocks to tick away completely subliminal durations we called ''time''. The very fact that you even brought clocks into this does not even persuade me to continue further.A photon does not experience time. That could be interpreted to mean it travels at infinite speed.Yes clocks are designed. There are many different types of clocks all operating on different principles. Atomic, electronic, mechanical, speed of light, speed of nuclear decay etc. All of them together will record the same local time. Another set of identical clocks together in a different local time (different gravitational potential) will all record the same time but the two different sets of clocks will record a different passage of time. Obviously they are recording something that is the same for all of them but owes nothing to individual clock design. The thing they are recording is the passage of time.If time does not exist what keeps each group of clocks synchronized with one another yet makes one group un-synchronized with the other? The amount of difference can be mathematically predicted. How do you account for that?Subliminal implies the passage of time.Perhaps you would like to answer the question from my last post.How would you account for gravity if time is not real?
If time does not exist what keeps each group of clocks synchronized with one another yet makes one group un-synchronized with the other? The amount of difference can be mathematically predicted. How do you account for that?Perhaps you would like to answer the question from my last post.How would you account for gravity if time is not real?
Earlier in this thread you requested me to address specific points that you had made which I did. In my last post I asked you to address two points which you didn't. They were.Quote from: MikeS on 27/03/2012 18:23:42If time does not exist what keeps each group of clocks synchronized with one another yet makes one group un-synchronized with the other? The amount of difference can be mathematically predicted. How do you account for that?Perhaps you would like to answer the question from my last post.How would you account for gravity if time is not real?
Relativity explains the difference in the two groups. It does not explain why all of the clocks in each group remain synchronized among themselves.And that did not answer the question"How would you account for gravity if time is not real?"
Quote from: MikeS on 02/04/2012 06:27:41Relativity explains the difference in the two groups. It does not explain why all of the clocks in each group remain synchronized among themselves.And that did not answer the question"How would you account for gravity if time is not real?"Why should I answer that last question?All I need to do is point my finger in the way of GR and explain gravity in that way. Perhaps I need to remind you that GR is timeless.