Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => Complementary Medicine => Topic started by: Ians Daddy on 13/10/2003 09:19:49
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Please, is there any remedy for this sleep disorder? I want nothing more than to get my 8 hours in and go to bed at a decent time. I'm always looking at the clock and its way past my bed time. I do get sleepy, but it's too late to go to sleep. Once I am asleep, I'm GONE. I often have several early appointments that I have to keep, so to avoid sleeping through them, I just stay up. I'm not liking this at all. Does anyone have any suggestions? Any herbal supplements, exercises, techniques you could share?
Sleepy Ron [:(]
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Ron,
Valerian - one hour before your desired bedtime. Even if you don't feel sleepy, lay down. You can experiment to find the dosage that works for you. You'll be delighted to hear that it also relieves menstrual cramps.[:D] Calcium and B complex at night help too.
I'd be willing to bet that you don't keep the same hours from one day to the next. Our bodies need a regular routine, especially when it comes to sleep patterns, so working on that can help.
There are subliminal tapes/CDs you can get to encourage sleep too.
Let us know how you do....if we see gibberish accredited to your name, we'll know you fell asleep at the keyboard.
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I don't have to be asleep to put out nonsensical gibberish. Haven't you noticed? [:)]
You're absolutely right about my schedule. As a contractor, I find myself pulled in all directions at all times. I would love a routine, but can't seem to find one. I'll try the velarian. Do I get it at the pharmacy or the health place?
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Health food stores, but you could call the pharmacy and see if they carry it if it's more convenient than an hfs.
Marijuana works even better than valerian but I don't want you to get in arrested, so I'd stick with the valerian[8D].
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I used to smoke up before bed every night. I never slept better. The only problem was I liked to stay that way. I couldn't find an alarm that would wake me. I'm in "the program" now, so I'm all about herbal supplements. I'm going to get groceries tomorrow, so I'll look for some velarian.
Does it take awhile to get into your system and work like St. Johns Wort? Or, is it a per use thing like laxatives? I'm afraid if I go to a HFS with lots of questions, I'll walk out with a duffel full of bottles and a few hundred dollars light.
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A few hundred would hardly get you a duffel full[:0], but it might line the bottom.
Valerian works per use, so if you take the dose recommended on the bottle an hour before bed time you should pop right off to sleep.
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I usually find that 5 vallium and a large gin are quite effective at seeing off those troublesome 'stay-awake all night' occasions.
George
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Oh, not me. I used to take a few valium and drink a few drinks and, for some reason, I'd be amped. It had an opposite affect on me. That might have something to do with why I'm in "the program" now. Damn, I could go for a cold one! And a valium and a fat joint. Hey! Does valerian give you a buzz?
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No,but I have it on good authority that St. John's Wort makes you fart.
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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[:0] LOL [:D] <howling with laughter> [:)] <rolling on the floor> [:o)]...how depressing! St. John's Wort also makes your eyes sensitive to light, so I've read that wearing UV protection shades is a good idea (unless you live in Britain, where you don't have to worry about getting too much sunlight[;)]).
Sorry Ron, no buzz but you'll be bright eyed and bushy tailed after a good night's sleep. Exercising during the day helps you sleep, and sex at bedtime should help you drift off[:D].
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I like that last idea the best. Unfortunately, I'll have to get velarian[:(].
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Sorry Ron, I have to correct your spelling....valerian. If you get someone not familiar with it they may not find it if they do a computer search with the wrong spelling.
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Maybe there will be a cutie at the HFS and I can also incorporate the latter solution too. I can spell sex. [:)]
Do health food store clerks wear scrubs?
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Yeah, you might get viagra instead of valerian and then you'd be up all night.
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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The health food version is Vigora or something like that.
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My dad had a free sample of Viagra and he found out my brother was taking them to "party". I find this odd as he doesn't have a girlfriend. Hmmmm.
Vigora. Might be fun.
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"Up all night"? Good one, Chris.
Viagra is quite the street drug here. Goes for about $10 a pill, and the young boys like it -- so they can be up all night.
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Ronnie's normally pretty quite but my 'up all night' seemed to go up over his head...oops, that's not sounding too good either !
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Must be lack of sleep -- he's not on top of things.
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Sorry, I see I've typoed - I meant quick not 'quite' !
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Bad typing Chris, what's up with that?
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well it's not much help if you can't understand what I was trying to say ?!
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Hehehe. I did miss that. I've had my boys for the last five days and it's been constant running. I've been getting very little sleep and absolutely no rest. Hell, I'm so tired, I can't even come up with any d!ck jokes to retort.
Cheers,
Ronnie
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So where can i get some of this St John's Wort... Imagine the hours of fun FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAART!
Resident Tour Operator - The Naked Scientists
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*mutters* bloody penis-obsessed men ...
The best thing to do I've found is to do a lot of physical excercise in the afternoon, perhaps go for a long walk (half an hour at least) then sit down for a while then get a nice book and lie in bed with it and a mug of hot chocolate or milk and relax and keep thinking to yourself how comfortable and relaxed you are even if you're not, just keep repeating it to yourself. Don't read an exciting book, something nice and boring (like a mills and boon for instance) then turn out the lights, spend no more than 30 seconds finding a comfortable position then lie there and keep repeating to yourself how warm and snuggly you feel, and you will fall asleep pretty soon.
Am I dead? Am I alive? I'm both!
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Great. I'll try it. Thanks.
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Exodus, if you have St. John's Wort in the tub you could blow bubbles and have a bubble bath![:0]
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Clearly, taking St. John Wort would not be a good idea before bed, unless you have the facility to strap the covers down...[^]
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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huh???
Am I dead? Am I alive? I'm both!
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Velcro sheets, top and bottom.........no problem with "blow ups" from the SJW!
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I think that one blew straight over Quantum's head.
C
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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My mother swears by warm milk and honey before bed. When I can't sleep I lie on my back and mentally relax every part of my body, starting with each toe and working my way up. I'm usually asleep before I get past my legs.
Obviously, I try to be very quiet and not toss and turn because it wakes my hubby and then he suggests his (so-called) sure-fire way to send me to sleep[;)].........and thats when I tell him I have a headache as well as insomnia.[:D]
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Genegenie,
Your hubby is only trying to help.[:)] It puts us right to sleep almost everytime. It also cures headaches. 4 out of 5 doctors agree that sex with me is so boring, that you can't help but fall asleep. Take your hubby's prescription and have sweet dreams.
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Ronnie, so how many doctors have you had sex with then[;)]?
Genegenie, your hubby's on the right track, knocks me out like a light! As Ronnie said, it's good for headaches too; may not cure the pain, but gives you pleasure to focus on. Now I just hope I don't have 50 million women mad at me for ruining their best excuse.
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I've only slept with one doctor, but I believe it spawned a survey at area malls. On the subject of headaches, as they say, laughter is the best medicine. Get me nekkid and all your ailments are gone. [:D]
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Is that what all those surveyors at the mall are asking about? I always wondered. Sex puts me to sleep too, and I swear I'm all female, but I'm just like a man. Want to roll over and go to sleep afterwards. As far as the cuddling goes, can't stay awake long enough to demand it. Headaches? Only had one in my life after I had a concussion. That's kind of lets the headache out as an excuse for me.
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Ronnie - I saw this and thought of you :
http://www.sciam.com/askexpert_question.cfm?articleID=00054E67-ED15-1EB6-BDC0809EC588EEDF&catID=3
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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Interesting article, Chris. Too much REM?
Ron, do you drink coffee after 2pm?
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Very interesting, Chris. Thank you. It did give me some insight and I'm going to try some of the suggestions.
Donnah, yes, I do drink lots of coffee. I try not to drink any caffine after 5pm, but sometimes find I've failed. I drink less water than I used to and rarely exercise. I smoke and my stress has been at an all time high for the last few years. As a whole, I just haven't been taking very good care of myself. I do remember as a child having trouble sleeping. It seems that good sleep has never been a constant luxury for me. I find that I'm very tired in the morning as though I didn't sleep at all. I've also been reluctant to go to bed. That's not to say that I'm not tired / sleepy, I just don't go to bed. I've been forcing myself to bed lately and practicing some of the suggestions from everyones advice here (thank you)and have had a little better time getting up in the mornings. I just need to take better care of myself and not run myself into the ground so much.
Time to wind down.....G'nite, Y'all.
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Why does good sleep get more elusive as I get older. I remember those teenage years of sleeping in till noon after a night out. Now, I'm wide awake come 5 am regardless of the previous night's activities. I see my daughter sleeping like a baby and envy her ability to just "turn off" and crash for the night. So, what's up with the sleep thing as I age? Anyone have any ideas or similar experience?
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So maybe, if what you're saying is true, my ability to get to work on time might improve as I get older ?!
Rate I'm going I'll have to be bloody retiring age before I get near the door close to starting time !
Chris
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
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I've been watching this thread and feeling that I don't have much to contribute. I still don't have much to contribute, but I'll put in my 2 cents'.
I have found that not doing my exercise makes it difficult to get to sleep. Getting too much sleep (or trying to) is also a bad thing. For a while I was also having to get up two or three times a night to relive my bladder. Taking saw palmetto extract to reduce my prostate has helped that a lot. Sometimes I get a good book and stay up all night. That really helps me sleep well the next night. Mostly, I figure if I'm not going to sleep anyway, just stay up and do something fun - like write stuff on this forum!
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John
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Tweener - thanks for the $0.02 worth. Can you expand on the saw palmetto prostate thing?? Why, what does it do, how does it work, etc........not only have I reach an age where sleep becomes elusive, butt I'm hearing the snapping sound of a rubber glove approaching from the rear, yikes!!
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I read somewhere that older people need less sleep. Then I read somewhere else that older people tend to nap more during the day, thus requiring less sleep at night. All I know is that since I'm "older," I sleep less and feel just fine, and have also changed from being a night person to a day person. Read somewhere else that sleep regulation has to do with the pineal gland, which calcifies in all of us with age.
Bezoar
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Pappy, saw palmetto is useful in preventing prostate enlargement because it inhibits the production of the hormone dihydrotestosterone. It also functions as an appetite stimulant, diuretic, urinary antiseptic, and can enhance sexual drive and function.
Sleep? I'm Bezoar's age and sleep like a baby most nights. Easy to fall asleep and easy to stay asleep. The key, for me, is stress level.
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Nancy,
PLEASE tell me how to switch from a night person to a day person. I'm possitive that it would make life alot easier amongst all these crazy day people and their unrealistic demands on me.
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Pappy, what Donnah said about saw palmetto. She knows more details than I do. It really does work, but that rubber glove is snapping behind me too I'm afraid.
My main trouble with sleep is that my circadian (sp?) rythm is not tuned to a 24 hour day. I seem to be off by about 5 or 10 minutes per day. Sometimes I have good timing and then I drift earlier to the point I stay up late and don't get up in time for work for a while. So, sometimes I'm a day person and sometimes I'm a night person.
I prefer nights because that's when I get to do fun stuff like play with pictures on my computer and surf the internet. It makes for long days at work though.
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John
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Ronnie
My switch from a night to a day person came about after working eight years of the night shift (7p-7a). I got to hwere I was so sleep deprived that I fell asleep every time I sat still for any length of time. Finally, when the girls were old enough to be home for a few hours till I got off work, I switched to the day shift. Gradually, over about a year, I strangely became a day person, waking up with the sun. I don't know why it happened, and I wouldn't suggest eight years of the night shift to my worst enemy. Did it so the kids wouldn't have to be with baby sitters -- that way they were either with their Dad or me. I think somehow the years of sleep deprivation reset my circadian clock. Also, the sleep deprivation influenced my choice of the second husband, absolute proof that people should not go too long without sleep.
Bezoar
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Hehehehe....sleep deprivation can cause some really bad choices. Too many cobwebs in the head. I tried the 3rd shift for two years and it's hard to get used to. I don't think I ever did. I think alot of my sleep habits stem from my past. I was a bartender, waiter, bouncer in clubs and got home at 5am or 6am quite regularly. It's been ages since then and I need to switch. It's getting a little better, but I have to go to bed in order to get up on time. I just avoid going to bed. As if I'm going to miss something. I know there are no clowns and ponies once I drift off to sleep. Why I fight it, I'll never know.
I read that your body keeps an account of your "sleep debt" and it usually catches up when you get ill. Is there any validity to this?
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Ron just pretend there's a gorgeous woman waiting in bed for you[:X]; that'll get you 'tween the sheets faster than the speed of light[:p].
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It's body language. If you won't slow down, your body gets you sick enough to make you get to bed so you have to get your rest. People who get adequate sleep live longer. so there must be some truth to it. Last time I got a cold, I was off work and took the luxury of staying in bed the whole day. That's something I've never done before, but I can tell you I felt at least 90% better the next day, and the course of the cold was only about three days as opposed to a week. There's a lot to be said for adequate rest to recuperate from illness.
Oh yes, and the thought of the gorgeous woman might get you to bed -- but then keep you awake. And you can't pretend it's an ugly woman, cause then you won't want to go to bed. Don't know what the answer is -- only that my insomnia comes in cycles. Then too, since I left the boyfriend, I sleep much better. Thought I was in another insomnia cycle and turns out I was in an aggravation cycle. Point being, aggravation can keep you awake.
Bezoar
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quote:
Originally posted by chris
I think that one blew straight over Quantum's head.
C
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
Yeah LOL! And i don't think men are obsessive over penisses, there are much better things to obsess over!
Resident Tour Operator - The Naked Scientists
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I'm really glad that hubby doesn't read this forum (actually he doesn't yet know how to turn on the computer) because you've sure blown my cover. Hang on a minute......isn't there something called orgasmic headache....and isn't it dangerous??? Hehe
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orgasmic headache????? That sounds awful! That must really take a GOOD one to get started! [:0]
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John
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you should talk to a doctor they make pills for that stuff, but also try not to eat anything 30 min before you go to sleep and stretch out this will let your body relax more:)
i have been here longer yet you seem to be more advanced...
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Theres actually a theory in the excercize physiology world that says its bad to stretch right before you go to bed. when you stretch it causes your muscles to dump their toxins (which is why stretching is ordinarily very good for you). But you need to stay up and somewhat active, and drink plenty of fluids to let your body flush these toxins out, or else they will just sit somewhere in you body. Most likeley just your kidneys but you'd still rather have them out.
BOW DOWN TO THE LORD OF THE FLIES!!!!
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hmmm...well that totally threw out my idea
I WILL RULE THE WORLD, so suck up now before its too late(ha ha ha ha ha)
Greetings in Christ Jesus my Lord[;)]
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quote:
Originally posted by chris
No,but I have it on good authority that St. John's Wort makes you fart.
"I never forget a face, but in your case I'll make an exception"
- Groucho Marx
I hadn't read this thread before but thank you Chris, this and the conversation that followed has made my night, big belly laughs
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Sunlight or not you have to worry about UV rays.[8D]
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Natures way? Turkey and a beer.
OTC way.. Nyquil.. stuff knocks me out even if I'm not sick.
I usually only need 4 hours of sleep a night but I can on;y do that for about 3 days before my mind clouds so my BEST sleep aid.
Sunday morning.
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It is good to be alive! It's impossible I'm here but here I am.. and I rock!
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hi everyone,
this is the first time iv been here, or any other insomnia forum, but i could use some good advice from some fellow creatures of the night.
its 145am, iv been up since 230am yesterday morning nearly 24hrs, the last bit of sleep i had was 5 measly hours, and before that i was up for 30+ hours. and yet i still cant sleep, im not really even tired dispite the fact i took some sleeping pills (amatryptaline) about 2hrs ago, iv been to bed a couple times tonight, i just could not silence my thoughts, so i got up, make a pot of tea, and build a joint that will hopefully knock me out.
iv had insomnia since i was a young kid (im 23 now), i never slept well. but its getting worse and worse, i used to need sleep after about 24hrs, but over the last couple of years, iv been staying up unable to sleep for longer and longer, the longest iv ever gone without sleep is 45 hours, that was about a month ago.
iv tried all sorts of treatments over the years (pills/restrictive diets/exercise) and more, nothing seems to work.
its also totally screwed up my work life, iv been unemployed for 3 months or something now, i cant hold down a job when im going days without sleep. im a pc techie by trade, i could be earning an half decent salary but my damned insomnia keeps screwing it up.
i last went to go see my doctor about it around 4 month ago, she was totally and utterly unsimpathetic, she gave me four sleeping pills and told me to return in two weeks, i never bothered going back. sorry about the long rant people, im just pi**ed off with the fact im still awake,
does anybody know of any sleep speacialist or sleep clinic or anything like that in the UK, i really need to get this sorted out.
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Hi Col888....welcome ..........At the ROYAL BROMPTON (london)they have a sleeping study clinic, also at GUYS and ST THOMAS HOSPITAL (London)they have a sleeping disorders clinic too....go to your GP and see if you can get a referal.....it didn't help me but it might help you.....good luck....there's always the Clinical Psychologist route too to help you retrain your body to get to sleep.....*sigh*....hope it all works out.....For your info, I've been a long sufferer too, since I was 6...(that's 34 friggin years !!!!) usually sleep a 2-3 hours a night and then go without sleep at all a couple of nights a week.......let us all know how you get on eh ?
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Hi Col888,
Welcome to the forum, Sorry to hear that you are having such a struggle with sleep. Now and then I have had insomnia also. One time I went two weeks without sleep and started hallucinating (without drugs [:p]). It took me a month taking benedryl to get back into a regular pattern of sleep. A couple of things that have helped me are 5-HTP and taking melatonin. There are so many things that can cause insomnia and I am wondering if anyone has been able to pinpoint the reason for the insomnia you struggle with? I am aware of some of the things that have caused mine and try to work with my body to alleviate them. I hope this helps, Cathy
His ways are higher than mine
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Unfortunately melatonin is only available on prescription here in the UK......I went on a course for three months....did nothing but that of course does not mean it won't help Col888....,......again, you'll have to get it prescribed if you want to try it.
For me, Nitrazepam is the only thing that works (so far)....but the lastthing you want to do is to take sleepy tabs regularly.
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thanx for replying people, i got to sleep at about 4am, iv just woken up (its 6pm, another day down the drain)
the clinic and hospital in london sound exactly what im looking for, im going to see if i can find some more info on them later tonight (im off out with the family for a bit first)
but maybe il speak to some of u later,,
cheers.
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well I'll be up till at least 5am tomorrow, though, I doubt I'll be here...(as much as I love this site, we're just engaged not married !!).........I'll be playing hunt the ZZZZZ's in front of the TV !!
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I'm guessing all you non sleepers don't drink alcohol. A bottle of red wine with/after dinner will not only improve your health (ever heard of the French paradigm), you'll sleep like a kitten. If that doesn't help, a quarter of whiskey will. I'm sure as drugs go, these are better for you than Nitrazepam etal.
You don't need a prescription or a doctor, either.
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If I could find a red wine that I could like (remember , I'm a tea totaller)..one that doesn't give me chronic indigestion and actually tastes nice...then I would red wine away , as far as the whiskey/scotch/bourbon and other spirits are concerned...oh my word !!..how disgusting are they ?...YUK !!.in fact, I think the whole world hates these drinks but nobody has the guts to say so !!
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quote:
Originally posted by neilep
If I could find a red wine that I could like (remember , I'm a tea totaller)..one that doesn't give me chronic indigestion and actually tastes nice...then I would red wine away , as far as the whiskey/scotch/bourbon and other spirits are concerned...oh my word !!..how disgusting are they ?...YUK !!.in fact, I think the whole world hates these drinks but nobody has the guts to say so !!
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I'll admit when I don't like a drink. I don't like tequila. But damn do I love the burn of a nice shot of Wild Turkey followed by a cold beer. It'll put hair on yer chest and make sure you sleep well that night.
Seriously though, I can't recommend drinking alcohol regularly to fall asleep. Dependency issues aside, going to sleep drunk causes restless sleep which really isn't much better than not sleeping at all. Might I suggest trying a nice 5-HTP supplement instead? Its a direct precoursor to seratonin. If seratonin levels are low you can have difficulty falling asleep. 5-HTP can help if that's the reason.
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C'mon Ylide. If it's got letters and numbers after it instead of % ALC/VOL it won't really help you sleep. Dependency issues aside, I've never had a restless sleep after a few beers and a bottle of red wine. What is 5-HTP, anyway? Like most things that our bodies need that are "natural", they must be processed from an organic source. Where do they come from, and why not suggest eating that instead. Supplements are both expensive and completely unnecessary if you eat/drink/inhale (and I like the last one) all the stuff you need without it chemically enhanced or processed.
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Roberth, at risk of sounding like a pessimist, good luck finding and paying for food that was grown from non GM seeds in fertile soil without the use of artificial fertilizers, pesticides, or herbicides.
"Remember, if you ever need a helping hand, you will find one at the end of each of your arms." - Audrey Hepburn
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Donnah, I'm not really after organically grown foods. I'm happy to eat the meat and veges sold at the supermarket. It was more a statement on where the supplements came from. Maybe I shouldn't make posts after work, during beer o'clock.