Naked Science Forum
On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: Airthumbs on 07/05/2011 05:46:37
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I would have posted this in the Space bit of the forum but I feel it might to far off the cuff! [::)]
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Some say planet earth is ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis
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More specifically space on a large and small scale seem to resemble a neural network. The link following especially reminds me of that.........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74IsySs3RGU
If this mimics a biological network then that may be coincidental, yet it still forms a structure that appears to be held together by dark energy and one normally associated with exchange of information. [:P]
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More specifically space on a large and small scale seem to resemble a neural network.
Just because something looks biological doesn't mean it is living/has lived, e.g. ...
(https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F4%2F42%2FDendrites01.jpg%2F800px-Dendrites01.jpg&hash=b1d30944d29d2c06c5633896df20fb47)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese#Occurrence_and_production
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Just because something looks biological doesn't mean it is living/has lived, e.g. ...
What you would be saying here is that the Universe is a Pseudofossil, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudofossil.
And by definition an inorganic object. Is the Universe inorganic?
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If the universe is an organism.
Are we phages?
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If the universe is an organism.
Are we phages?
Well we do tend to exhibit parasitical behavior don't we.....
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If the universe is an organism, then we are indeed parasites...
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I think some people miss the point here, I did not say is the Universe an organism, I said could it be.... I think the answer is yes what about you?
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I say NO! the universe is not an organism.. stick by the definition that an organism is made up of cells. The universe is not made up of cells. But the occupants thereof are.
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Interesting that you should state that the Universe is not made up of cells... Ok, quite obviously it is not when given in the context of how life has evolved on our planet. But if one stretches the imagination a little bit you can envisage that in fact the Universe is made up from areas that could be defined as cell like. The Sun and it's Heliosphere for example.
Some people might say "well that's like saying someone driving inside a car could be described as cell like"! In response to that car example I would say well yes it is, we are an entity that has manufactured a protective shell around ourselves.... so it is cell like.
It does not surprise me that there are so many similarities between life and the structure of the Universe. It seems that is the nature of the Universe we live in. [:P]
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@Airthumbs, well that similarities is due to the fact that we have One creator of the universe, forgive my saying so but I am a firm believer in creationism not evolution or the big bang.
You are right in stating those similarities but in my opinion you can only identify something as an organism if it is of microscopic proportion. For example: you cannot call a human an organism, though we are made up of cells. And if indeed the universe is an organism, someone much way way larger than us, wouldn't call the universe an organism. Unless they speak english too. that is.
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Dr Junix, it seems you have me over a barrel, metaphorically speaking that is! I was about to respond by stating that I believe in evidence normally of the scientific nature but alas I just shot myself in the foot with this thread alone didn't I........
Having said that I think what people believe is entirely up to them and what is important is that we try to understand our universe from a scientific perspective. Science gives us the tool to do just that.
To enter into an argument about religious belief would be against the whole principal of this forum and I feel that it would not be constructive in anyway.
What I will say and I say this as a non believer, thank god science is not a religion [;D]
I look forward to your contributions to this forum in future and I sincerely apologise if I have offended anyone with this response.........
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LOL.. do not worry Airthumbs, you haven't offended me in any way. I am just open to any kind of ideas and opinions, anyways your topic up there isn't about a religious belief. I apologize also for bringing my religion in here, and yes you are right. we both thank God that science is not a religion or else, we would have died of blasphemies a hundred times over long ago.
My replies are meant to be of the humorous kind, but if you take it seriously we could also further up the ante.. LOL.. It was a nice idea though unlike some of my really stupid theories.
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I appreciate that you are open minded Dr J, although I have to say I think that most of the intellects on this site would say this thread does not belong in general chat, but should be put into the pile of crap! [:P]
Lets do just that and move the ante up a mite. Consciousness, I believe I am right in saying that for consciousness to exist some kind of neural network must also exist. As pointed out by someone previously in this thread the fact that the Universe seems to mimic these structures is most likely pure coincidence?
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Hmmm.. as far as I am concerned what you are talking about is not a pile of crap. You know like the church was wrong in saying that the earth was flat when in fact it was stated in the bible in Job 26:7 "He(God) stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing."
Referring to consciousness, yes there is in fact consciousness in the universe, as to how to prove that i must say that I cannot except for the fact that I believe in it. And anyhow all scientific theories starts in believing and proving something, right? I think it is of no coincidence that the earth was placed right into the region of the solar system where life would flourish. Someone must have positioned us right we would be able to leave and that someone might be what you would call Consciousness. You have point there. So since organisms have some kind of consciousness, it may be credited that the universe is in fact an organism(Which would make you right) and make me wrong. But that would prove that there is indeed a God(Consciousness), which would make my faith in a God (right). Wow this is a win-win situation. LOL. We're having a happy ending here.
I hope you understand my english as you know, I do not really speak it well.
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I would have posted this in the Space bit of the forum but I feel it might to far off the cuff! [::)]
Someone famous, is recorded for stating that when he looked at a grain of sand, he could see an entire universe! Many have speculated the possibility that the universe is a much larger peice of an organism. It is most likely that it is not, however. The universe seems like the playground in which we observers like to speculate on such wild matters and speculations.
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I would have posted this in the Space bit of the forum but I feel it might to far off the cuff! [::)]
Someone famous, is recorded for stating that when he looked at a grain of sand, he could see an entire universe! Many have speculated the possibility that the universe is a much larger peice of an organism. It is most likely that it is not, however. The universe seems like the playground in which we observers like to speculate on such wild matters and speculations.
But sometimes those wild speculations are the truth. Because we sometimes does not wish to see the truth. For each one of us has been programmed to be right in our own eyes on our own terms.
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But sometimes those wild speculations are the truth. Because we sometimes does not wish to see the truth. For each one of us has been programmed to be right in our own eyes on our own terms.
I am pretty sure that Prof Richard Dawkins would definitely have something to say about the fact that we have been programmed, or at least some of us anyway........ I wonder what he would think about my speculative assumption regarding the universe...... [:o]
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@Airthumbs, I really do not want to be persistent about my religious beliefs and I really do not want to bring it here. But! I am starting to believe your assumption that the universe is indeed an organism, which is capable of thought or consciousness as you say, and as part of this organism, maybe located in the center of a neural network, I would identify the entity that this thought or consciousness belongs as the creator or mastermind of the universe. Lets say for example our body is a universe, other parts follow what the brain tells it to.
Therefore this entity with a thought or consciousness must be God, when this organism thought "Let there be light!" And there was light. Call it a supernova if you will. But the truth is there that someone much much larger and wiser than us is at the helm of structuring the universe, and you can see it by the similarities on how things and the universe works.
Thumbs up to you Airthumbs.
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Dr J. I can see where your logic comes from but you are missing a vital point. In your Universe god created there apparently was nothing until god decided it will exist. In my Universe the conditions arose from the evolution of the Universe to provide the structure for consciousness to exist as it did on Earth and all the other billions of planets out there. If you want to call the totally hypothetical consciousness I propose god, then so be it, but in the context of religious beliefs this "god" as you call it is absolutely not the creation of a deluded population seeking answers for things they do not understand but rather an almost accidental by product of the nature of our Universe.
Furthermore, as there is absolutely no scientific evidence to suggest that this consciousness even exists, I would not waste any of my time worshiping it or trying to convince other people that they should either.
Still having said all that I do feel that we are slightly narrow minded to think that intelligence in our vast Universe can only exist in the form of carbon based lifeforms such as ourselves. But I must stress that in a religious context this intelligence would absolutely not be representative of the creation mankind has sought in his/her ignorance.
Phew! Did I just write all that!!
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LOL.. Peace airthumbs.. You are right in saying that some of us are slightly narrow minded to think intelligence can only exist in carbon based lifeforms. I do not think that. That presumption can only be applied to earth. Who knows if there are other life forms beyond our world which are not as you say carbon based. Maybe it is the reason why we are not able to find evidence of life in the universe is because we think all life are carbon based,..
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I reckon the Universe is full of life, saturated in it in fact, there are valid arguments for Carbon based life forms to be the most abundant forms of life within our Universe but there must be others that may not even fall under the category of life as we know it. (Jim)! [;D]
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you are referring to "Gods" again Airthumbs..LOL
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[:P]
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I would like to raise this topic from the grave as quite recently in the news there seems to be a lot of people who think that this might actually be true.
Apparently the Universe is behaving like a giant quantum computer.
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I do like the Gaia hypothesis and if nothing else it provides a framework with which to look at environmental issues. I think it is becoming glaringly obvious that all organisms influence all other organisms at some level or another in some respect and that all organisms play a part....I'm thinking specifically of the current dawning realisation that we shouldnt be killing all bacteria dead.......
So yes I find it very appealing to think of the Universe as an organism and intuitively satisfying.
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I would like to raise this topic from the grave as quite recently in the news there seems to be a lot of people who think that this might actually be true.
Apparently the Universe is behaving like a giant quantum computer.
Absolutely, and consider this; Humanity, a product of the universe is evidence for this consciousness. And the likelihood that we are not the only conscious being inhabiting the universe just increases this prospect. The universe is the vessel which contains the conscious awareness present within us all. Quantum entanglement proves the connection between our consciousness and the cosmos. Because we are connected consciously to it, we are aware of it and it is aware of us.
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I would like to raise this topic from the grave as quite recently in the news there seems to be a lot of people who think that this might actually be true.
Apparently the Universe is behaving like a giant quantum computer.
Absolutely, and consider this; Humanity, a product of the universe is evidence for this consciousness. And the likelihood that we are not the only conscious being inhabiting the universe just increases this prospect. The universe is the vessel which contains the conscious awareness present within us all. Quantum entanglement proves the connection between our consciousness and the cosmos. Because we are connected consciously to it, we are aware of it and it is aware of us.
I think we run into trouble when we treat "consciousness" as its own entity, and not the product of a range of complex chemical reactions between various complex collections of atoms that have arranged themselves together through a long process of reproduction and mutation that we call "evolution".
There is no reason that the universe couldn't be an "organism" but it would depend on how you define "organism".
I personally don't believe that it is the case. There is no evolutionary drive if there is no competition, nothing to consume, nothing required to maintain itself. Unless through chance the incredibly large (yet incredibly sparse) amounts of matter have managed to arrange themselves in a way that can be thought of as living, I can't see how it can happen.
Now if our universe is just part of a greater multiverse (I hate that word!) then yes, it is possible that the collection of matter we define as "universe" could, in fact, be an organism. But then there's the issue of defining universe as "everything there is", and if you start to talk about it in multiples you just end up with turtles all the way down.
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I think it could be. I mean you emphasise on the word 'COULD'.