Naked Science Forum
General Science => General Science => Topic started by: Dislexic on 16/11/2009 18:34:14
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For instance if you imagine a gun being fired as fast as possible, then tried to imagine it being fired faster, it seems impossible, almost annoying
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I don't find so. It takes practice. Imagination is a tool to practice with you know.
I can imagine it slow down, it warping, it going really fast, the view from the bullet, the bullets thoughts as it hits someone. Learn to remove the rules as you know them, its like playing with an interal modifier of the universe. Nothing is true and everything is permitted. Just keep that in mind.
I don't know what the limit on imagination is, but I seem to have a very powerful one :)
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A limit to imagination????
I don't THINK SOoooo, please consider the Quantum Physicist. Now we're talking imagination and one might say, without limits!!!!!!!
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Nice handle! But shouldn't it be "Dixselic"?
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The original question imposed a limit.
"For instance if you imagine a gun being fired as fast as possible"
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Very good point out Chemist
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slightly off topic but sort of on topic [:P].... I just really need to post this as think its neat [;D]
It appears the mind can actually defy what is physically possible, by re-inventing what is indeed possible, so theres something for how far the 'imagination' can go [:D]
'It's all in the mind', takes on a whole new meaning with research revealing that phantom limbs can be taught to do physiologically impossible tasks.
"The brain's sense of how to implement this movement depended on the brain reconstructing the limb in order to let this movement happen according to the normal principles of physics,"
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/27/2725596.htm
Although, as seen in this article, it is possible because the limb is not really there. If it was there, the sensory input would be conflicting to what was being imagined, thus it would have been impossible. So i guess there are limits to our imagination in the face of sensory input from the environment, but perhaps not if there is no input...
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'Nothing is true and everything is permitted'. All about breaking the rules.
I can imagine my hand move, I can feel it move - but its not moving. I can imagine a hand coming out from my chest and I can feel it as if it is thre, but I just can't see it with my eyes :P
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=25704.0;topicseen here is a topic I posted awhile ago about a different thought paradigm
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I can imagine my hand move, I can feel it move - but its not moving. I can imagine a hand coming out from my chest and I can feel it as if it is thre, but I just can't see it with my eyes :P
I have to say that I dont fully understand how this could be normally possible, to literally FEEL it as if it was there as seen in phantom limbs if there is no part of the brain that can register it? Of course there surely would be no part of the brain to register a third limb... i think??? im out of my depth here! SOS, scientists out there!!!!!
I read the other thread you started Dimi, the only thing i can say is id be very keen to read what Mr. scientist has to say, though he never did post..... this is because im a skeptic myself if you'll excuse me, i need a scientific explanation...
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I don't think there is a limit to the imagination so much as a limit to how fast you can imagine and what you choose to include in your imagination.
Imagine a car leaving London for Glasgow. You can imagine it speeding along the A40, then the M40. Whizzing up the the M42 & M6 Midland Expressway, then M6 past Stoke, Manchester, Preston and on to the Scottish boarder. Now on to the M73 (or M74, I can't remember off hand) and so to the outskirts of Glasgow. What a fast trip...... Or imagine that car leaving London and WOW! Here we are at Motherwell.
My mind sometimes wanders, other times it leaves me completely.
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I can feel my skin on my chest, how could i then be able to imagine that there is an arm extending out of my chest? Could i imagine myself walking upside down , to the point that i truly feel physically that i am, when i can feel gravity inside my brain? The gravity is not telling me that i am upside down. surely, if there IS sensory information then it would be impossible to condridict it, so therefore surely there are limits? if one takes some mind altering drug that interferes with the neurons registering certain things, well that is different.
Also with regards to my point of there being parts of the brain that are there to register parts of the body that are present, how can the brain register something that is not there?
There is another part of the brain that gives us the sense of ownership over the various parts of our bodies (separate from the mapping of the world above). In rare cases after damage this ownership module can lose its input from a paralyzed limb and instead create the illusion of ownership over an imaginary limb (a supernumerary phantom limb). People with this condition feel as if they have an extra limb – they can see it and feel it, and even scratch themselves with it.
http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=749
unless we are talking about something abnormal it seems that there must be a part of the brain there to register it.
What researcher have learned is that the brain can be tricked by mixing up the tactile and visual input into placing the sense of self somewhere other than where the body is actually located.
http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/?p=749
the article doesnt seem to be suggesting anything other than a need for there to be sensory input. if it is muddled up then yes perception can be changed, but surely only then?
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It is what I call visualisation.
Imagine yourself you are walking a park, the air is nice aand fresh and clean - you can feel your feet touch the soil on the earth, you walk up to a small lake, you dip your hand in there- you can feel the cold on your hands, feel the breeze its nice and fresh etc etc.
I can FEEL the cold I KNOW the feeling of the cold, but I dont physically FEEL cold where my hand goes cold but I can recall how the feeling is.
Same goes for when you see an oncomming collision and you brace yourself to be hurt.
Who is to say it is NOT there? I am imagining a phantom limb - therefore it exists (ok its a loose term here, it is not TANGABLE physicaly where another can touch it - but I can still feel it) - though how you do it, not sure. Perhaps since I am very keen visualiser.
I can practice the violin without picking one up, I imagine I am holding it, I 'replicate' as if I were truly holding it in my mind (But I am not actually doing the motion physically) - It feels like I am holding it, and I imagine the notes I am playing and I feel which fingers are ment to be where, what the pitch is ment to be etc (Its not as effective as playing it physically but I can work out problems when I am diong fast passages or something like that - perhas with time it will be very close :P hopefuly haha)
Perhaps thats it! Try imagine you are moving your arm - but don't physically move it, imagine you are moving your right arm and you are going to pick something up in front of you - take keen note on how it feels; do it slowly in your mind.
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well evidently my imagination aint this strong, if my senses are telling me something, i fail in being able to ignore them [;)] nor can i really FEEL hot when i am cold, actually i often find myself thinking in summer.... oh its soooo hot, and i cannot literally imagine what it felt like to be cool, i just know as a mental fact that cool is possible [:P]
can somebody please give me some evidence (eg research findings) that there really is no limit to the imagination, otherwise im just not going to agree that senses and what the brain is physically capable of perceiving can be defied. So there! (blows raspberry) [;D]
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Lol, if I could make myself cold as ice when its hot I'd love it. I can recall the feeling of how it is to be cool, then often or not I just crave it more.
When I am relaxed however, I am more influeced by that way of thinking. I can atleast feel traces of the cool where if I am bloody hot. But more or not, it gets frustrating after awhile
As for limitless imagination, who knows really. We are limited by what we percieve; and we can synthesis our ideas, I believe there is a limit behind the brain .. I think I have a topic somewhere *edit* Oh lol it was the Thought Paradigm one.
I definantly can not imagine anything I haven't ever thought of before, I can mix ideas together - but all my thoughts have come from other sources.
I think the first step is to find out the rules before they can be broken
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From the link i initially posted:
The researchers believe this implies that our body image must obey Newton's laws, and we may make adjustments to ensure they continue to do that even when the mind is making the rules for itself.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/10/27/2725596.htm
I dont fully understand this unfortunately, would anyone care to enlighten me as to what Newton's laws in relation to body image are? I dont have any background in physics (yet!) annoyingly...
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I skipped most of it LOL, I am no scientist :)