Naked Science Forum
Non Life Sciences => Geology, Palaeontology & Archaeology => Topic started by: syhprum on 15/09/2018 19:27:01
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There is little doubt that a massive flood occurred about 5000 yrs BC that flooded the depressed area that became the black sea.
little credence can be given to the Jewish version where 40 days of excessive rain was sufficient "to cover the whole world so that only the mountain tops showed thru".
A more likely explanation is that rising sea levels in the Atlantic and Mediterranean led to a break thru at the Dardanelles if so what would the time scale be (I recon Noah would have plenty of time to build his boat).
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To what extent can accounts of Noah's flood be believed?
There was probably a flood.
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It couldn't have been worldwide. Isotopic analysis of soil from the Atacama desert reveals that it has been very dry for millions of years.
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You can't really believe it. Noah's ark story is just a retread of one chapter of the Epic of Gilgamesh.
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It couldn't have been worldwide. Isotopic analysis of soil from the Atacama desert reveals that it has been very dry for millions of years.
Also, there isn't enough water.
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(I recon Noah would have plenty of time to build his boat).
experimental archaeology says 4 years to build an Ark ...
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It couldn't have been worldwide. Isotopic analysis of soil from the Atacama desert reveals that it has been very dry for millions of years.
Some scientists think that "the world" means some smaller area, like in Mediterranean sea. Ones, which can't sail, thought that the world is where they live, and some area, like 2,000 km, maybe? You can't really believe it. Noah's ark story is just a retread of one chapter of the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Yes, this is an idea that cultures recycle other, and without context they would need to categorize it right, they translated it into own.
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Some scientists think that "the world" means some smaller area, like in Mediterranean sea.
What definition of the word "scientist" are you using here?
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What happened to the water?
It is still here; polar ice caps, glaciers, mountain ice, deeper undersea trenches, and oceans that are higher than pre-flood times.
Where did the water come from?
From suspension above the atmosphere. The entire planet was encapsulated in a bubble of water. This bubble modified the climate on earth so that even the polar regions were sub-tropical. There is fossil evidence of sub-tropical vegetation in polar regions. When the bubble collapsed catastrophic changes occurred on earth. Remains of wooley mamoths with grass still in their mouths have been excavated in Russia. This implies sudden death due to catastrophic flooding.
Was the ark a boat?
No, it was a very big rectangular box (no prow, no stern, no rudder, no masts, no sails) with a ventilation opening all around under the roof.
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What happened to the water?
It is still here; polar ice caps, glaciers, mountain ice, deeper undersea trenches, and oceans that are higher than pre-flood times.
There is not enough ice present on Earth for the melted water to cover Mount Everest. Not by a long shot.
Where did the water come from?
From suspension above the atmosphere. The entire planet was encapsulated in a bubble of water. This bubble modified the climate on earth so that even the polar regions were sub-tropical.
What was holding that water there?
There is fossil evidence of sub-tropical vegitation in polar regions.
Of course, since those regions used to be at lower latitudes due to plate tectonics (not to mention that the Earth as a whole was warmer during certain periods in prehistory).
Remains of wooley mamoths with grass still in their mouths have been excavated in Russia. This implies sudden death due to catastophic flooding.
How does "sudden death" automatically imply "sudden death due to catastrophic flooding" and how does "catastrophic flooding" automatically imply "global flooding"?
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If societies are to function they need rules. There needs to be some authority to enforce these rules. If this authority is represented as human then the incentive to follow those rules is far less than for a non human and 'devine' lawmaker. This is why gods were created. It removes the ability of the masses to have an effective means of challenging the authority. The god becomes a stand in for a dictator. This allows an elite group to rule in proxy for their own creation. A very clever tactic which hasn't been eradicated yet. Human manipulation is not difficult.
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None of the stories in the old testament are to be taken as fact. My understanding is that when they were first written (over the course of multiple centuries, by different groups of people http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/articles_authors.html ), no one expected the stories to be taken literally (in fact the bible contradicts itself multiple times--allowing for much more complex analysis by the scholars--and contradicts physical possibility many times as well). Instead the stories are meant to be fables, and only in the centuries after the new testament did it become mainstream to believe that it actually happened exactly as it was written. (possibly due to the philosophical influences of christian and muslim schools of thought.)
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There is no doubt through history floods and natural disasters of all manner have occurred. Lots of cultures have similar stories, science has verified in parts of the world floods have happened. However the old testament does not as stated in the OP represent an actual history.
As mentioned above religion seems to have been invented for the control and organisation of masses, as was politics and nationalism.
People have been exagerrating stories for millenia, exagerating claims and inventing stories just like today. It helps with fundraising for pet theories and gaining social status and controlling public thought.
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People have been exagerrating stories for millenia, exagerating claims and inventing stories just like today. It helps with fundraising for pet theories and gaining social status and controlling public thought.
A bit like posting on a discussion forum - apart from the fundraising.
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ht.
Yep moderators, and the mob have been known to prevent discussion of new topics. :)
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Even if we let slide all notions of Naval Architecture as applied to the ark, and even if we don't bother too much about the mathematics of species differentiation, regional habitats, which one(s) actually got on board, etc......
I am always amused by the questions of not only how they fed the animals (and with what feedstock, how much and stored where), but how the waste products were disposed of. The waste of that many animals would have produced a quantity of gaseous ammonia that would have quickly killed anything below decks before even a platoon of shovel wielding waste disposal technicians could have cleared the stalls.
Its a fun story, as long as you don't bother with any of the facts.
The part of the story they don't usually read in Sunday school are the several chapters that come after the landing and rainbow. That is, the part where Noah grows grapes, makes wine and then gets drunk in his tent and passes out naked.... hilarity/confusion ensues. This epilogue seems to have something to do with retconning why the Canaanites were later cursed. Seriously, check this out, its all there.
diogenesNY
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Yes there was a world wide flood. Ocean levels rose about 400 ft in a very short time. And there were lots of Noahs. There were many creatures who could not walk to Mesopotamia. So boats were built in every continent. That's why the stories are on every continent. I don't think it was 5,000 years ago though. The evidence shows a worldwide catastrophe happened 11,500 years ago. That would have been the flood.
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When I had to choose a Non de Plume for this forum I contemplated Noah as I am quite good at getting drunk and getting lost.
I find the most unbelievable aspect of the story was that it only took "forty days and forty nights" to produce this flood!
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What happened to the water?
It is still here; polar ice caps, glaciers, mountain ice, deeper undersea trenches, and oceans that are higher than pre-flood times. Also consider the millions (or billions) of tons of water currently in suspension as clouds. The pre-flood earth had no clouds. Water was suspended above the atmosphere. The earth existed in a bubble of water. Plants were watered by condensation.
The early Mesopotamian cultures were obsessed with mapping the stars. This is because the stars could not be seen clearly in the pre-flood atmosphere.