Naked Science Forum

On the Lighter Side => New Theories => Topic started by: SteveD on 10/02/2009 06:43:16

Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 10/02/2009 06:43:16
Monday February 9, 2009

I have an allergic-like reaction to sexual activity. This is not caused by childhood sexual or emotional trauma. It is not caused by the lack of emotional intimacy or the inability to commit. It is more like an alcoholics reaction to alcohol. After sex, I don't feel connected, warm, close and safe as you would expect a healthy person to feel. I feel needy, hurt, sad, lonely, negative, despairing, rigid, controlling, isolated, obsessive, extreme and humorless. I feel 'pitifully and incomprehensibly demoralized'.

I gave up masturbating 18 1/2 years ago and it helped, a lot. But, good, consistent monogamy and/or marriage do not ameliorate this condition. Twenty months ago I gave up being orgasmic under any condition, and it helped a lot, too. I have not given up sexual contact with my girlfriend, but the times when we agree to abstain physically I feel an absence of symptoms.

Any one else have a similar experience?

Steve D.

Mod edit - formatted the subject as a question - please do this to help keep the forum tidy and easy to navigate - thanks!
Title: Re: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 10/02/2009 21:15:37
Hi Steve--I can relate to what you are talking about regarding an allergic type of reaction to sexual stimulation.
But I haven't been able to figure why it happens at certain times and not at others. I haven't gone as far as you
with attempting to give up all sexual orgasms. I don't think it would work anyway, as I end up having nocturnal
orgasms in my sleep (most notably at certain times in my menstrual cycle), during those times when my body
seems to need that kind of release.

I have noticed that now that I am in a healthy monogamous relationship with a long term partner (10 years),
my sexual response is very different than it was when I was single and looking. At those times I definitely felt
like an attraction to someone could trigger an almost anxiously addictive turn-on of a feeling. With my current
partner sexual contact of any kind is more relaxed and "sleepy" in nature. There is no anxiety about any kind
of performance issues, and there is a lot of acceptance about my very low of libido--due to long term health
issues. There is none of "urgency" about sex, that seemed to happen when I was younger and more addictively
inclined.

Lately also, since I started a hormone treatment with low dose hydrocortisone, my brain feels much calmer in
general and this is affecting my response to sex as well--in that I am not so afraid to have an orgasm for fear
that it will drain my energy. In fact, I had a successfully non-exhausting real orgasm without such problems
a couple days ago. A big victory for me!

I'm glad you started this thread. I hope more people on the POIS forum become aware of it and post some of
their thoughts.
Title: Re: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: underwater on 10/02/2009 21:20:18
Steve--
I think that your description as an allergic type reaction may be accurate for some POIS sufferers. I think that general sexual activity triggers POIS as well as orgasmic activity. But I think it can be resolved biochemically. As my psychiatrist reminded me yesterday, there are many unknown nuerotransmitters in our bodies. My POIS is not the severe brain fog type. Mine is more amped up hyper with depression. Only modest fatigue. I think mine is connected to anxiety. Thus, I am trying to balance my neurotransmitters. I am making some progress with my supplements. If I can get rid of my anxiety disorder, I will approach POIS with the same type of therapies, and maybe the new neurotransmitter balance with carry over to POIS. My latest theory for me is that I have some type of unhealthy reaction to my own stimulatory neurotransmitters, thus autoallergy. We will see.
Title: Re: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: lyner on 11/02/2009 10:58:30
I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'? There are many ways of getting to orgasm - some can be pretty traumatic and could lead to severe hangover effects.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 12/02/2009 19:33:44
DIAGNOSTIC TEST LIST FOR HORMONAL and OTHER DEFICIENCIES

To check out if one's particular issue with sexual exhaustion or other related symptoms might have a physical
cause, it's a good idea to get ALL of one's HORMONES checked. Here is a list of the tests that I did, some of which
revealed clear deficiencies.

Hormone Tests

Free Cortisol and Cortisol--for adrenals
DHEA Sulphate--also for adrenals
Thyroid tests (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, TPO-AB, Thyroglobulin AB, and Reverse T3),   
IGF-1 (that's growth hormone),
Free Testosterone,
Pregnenolone,
FSH and LH,
Estradiol, and
Progesterone.

Other useful diagnostic tests:

Serotonin (the feel-good neurotransmitter).
Vitamin D 25 hydroxy  (many people are deficient in Vit D)
RBC Magnesium (many people are also deficient in magnesium)
Total Iron; Iron Binding Capacity; and the Ferritin test--the main intracellular iron storage protein.
CBC (complete blood count), which is a panel of tests, that includes RBC and WBC,
the Complete Metabolic Panel--another panel of tests which checks out electrolytes, protein, and
   liver and kidney functions.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 12/02/2009 20:03:02
I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'? There are many ways of getting to orgasm - some can be pretty traumatic and could lead to severe hangover effects.

Hello Sophiecentaur: Welcome to this new thread. I'm wondering exactly which "techniques" you are talking about.
There is a couple from the reuniting website who have gone into great detail about the biochemistry and bonding
aspects of sexuality.  Have you read any of that work?    Is that what you are referring to, or something else?

 http://www.reuniting.info/
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 12/02/2009 20:18:54
there are many unknown nuerotransmitters in our bodies. My POIS is not the severe brain fog type. Mine is more amped up hyper with depression. Only modest fatigue. I think mine is connected to anxiety. Thus, I am trying to balance my neurotransmitters. I am making some progress with my supplements. If I can get rid of my anxiety disorder, I will approach POIS with the same type of therapies, and maybe the new neurotransmitter balance with carry over to POIS. My latest theory for me is that I have some type of unhealthy reaction to my own stimulatory neurotransmitters, thus autoallergy. We will see.

Hello Underwater:

Good to find you here.

I have some similar reactions as you do--I have BOTH the fatigue and the hyper/anxious reactions--common
to people with CFS. I think neurotransmitters (or a deficiency of one or more of them) are definitely involved in
this type of response, but I also think there is an adrenal/cortisol issue playing a part in this.

I wouldn't underestimate the effect that cortisol plays in healthy responses to stress. And...cortisol ALSO has an
anti-inflammatory affect in the body. I have noticed that I feel a bit calmer since I began my HC treatment two
weeks ago. I am still on VERY LOW doses, but over time I will be able to report on how it is affecting my overall
energy, stress and sexually functioning.

Cortisol tests can reveal what level the adrenals are functioning at. I would encourage you to test your levels some
time and see where they are at. 

SOME GREAT ARTICLES ON THE POSITIVE EFFECTS OF LOW-DOSE CORTISOL on ADRENAL FATIGUE, CFS and PTSD

http://www.conscioushealing.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=72&Itemid=57
http://trusted.md/blog/vreni_gurd/2008/01/18/cortisol_our_stress_hormone
http://www.ei-resource.org/news/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-news/cortisol-an-effective-treatment-for-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-and-fibromyalgia/
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/reprint/161/8/1488.pdf
http://www.forschungsportal.ch/unizh/p9731.htm
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 13/02/2009 22:11:48
Girlwind,

So good to see you here


DIAGNOSTIC TEST LIST FOR HORMONAL and OTHER DEFICIENCIES

To check out if one's particular issue with sexual exhaustion or other related symptoms might have a physical
cause, it's a good idea to get ALL of one's HORMONES checked. Here is a list of the tests that I did, some of which
revealed clear deficiencies.

Hormone Tests

Free Cortisol and Cortisol--for adrenals
DHEA Sulphate--also for adrenals
Thyroid tests (TSH, Free T3, Free T4, TPO-AB, Thyroglobulin AB, and Reverse T3),   
IGF-1 (that's growth hormone),
Free Testosterone,
Pregnenolone,
FSH and LH,
Estradiol, and
Progesterone.

Other useful diagnostic tests:

Serotonin (the feel-good neurotransmitter).
Vitamin D 25 hydroxy  (many people are deficient in Vit D)
RBC Magnesium (many people are also deficient in magnesium)
Total Iron; Iron Binding Capacity; and the Ferritin test--the main intracellular iron storage protein.
CBC (complete blood count), which is a panel of tests, that includes RBC and WBC,
the Complete Metabolic Panel--another panel of tests which checks out electrolytes, protein, and
   liver and kidney functions.

I have just this last Monday gotten free health insurance.In San Francisco all you have to be is a citizen and you are entitled to coverage...
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 13/02/2009 22:20:24
Whoops, accidentally posted...In any case, they have agreed to do:

CBC
CNP
Iron Panel
Lipid Panel
Vitamin D level
Vitamin B-12
but more interestingly also:
T4,Free
TSH, Ultrasensitive
T3, Total
Thyroid antibodies
and Testosterone, free and total

additionally they have outsourced an appointment with an Endo.

So I'm grateful for all that. I will ask for additional testing once I'm at the appointment
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 13/02/2009 22:38:40
Steve--
I think that your description as an allergic type reaction may be accurate for some POIS sufferers. I think that general sexual activity triggers POIS as well as orgasmic activity.

Underwater,

That's been my experience. I am really happy with the freedom from the devastating effects of orgasmic sexuality the last 21 months (as of yesterday...but who's counting!).But, there is more work to be done. I will not rest until all the negative effects of pre-orgasmic sexuality are eliminated from my life.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 13/02/2009 22:44:36
I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'? There are many ways of getting to orgasm - some can be pretty traumatic and could lead to severe hangover effects.

Sophiecentaur,

I'm curious about which techniques you are referring to as well.

SteveD.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: demografx on 14/02/2009 02:32:40
Hi Steve, congratulations on the new thread.

Just wanted to say hi and best wishes to all.

Glad to see the message expand!
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 14/02/2009 03:42:21
Girlwind,

I have just this last Monday gotten free health insurance.In San Francisco all you have to be is a citizen and you are entitled to coverage...

You're lucky. I'm in the Monterey Bay area and we don't have health care like that. I paid out of pocket for all my tests and
it cost me close to $2000.  However, I do think it's worth it to KNOW EXACTLY what is off, and to be able to address that in
whatever way one can to correct it. Your list looks like a good start, but I think some of the other hormone tests would be
helpful as well. Good luck with it.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 14/02/2009 03:44:50
BASAL BODY TEMPERATURE TEST FOR THYROID

Also, there is a way to detect potential thyroid problems, by testing one's basal body temperature first thing 
in the a.m. Low body temperature in the morning is considered an indication of potential hypothyroidism.
If you take your basal body temperature with a glass thermometer first thing upon awakening, and it is below
97.4 degrees consistently for several days in a row, some thyroid experts say this can indicate your thyroid is
not working properly. Because thyroid is KEY to metabolism and energy functioning, I think it's a good idea
to know how well it's working. It will affect all the hormones if it's not at a healthy level.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2008/01/02/temperature-regulation-for-thyroid-testing.aspx
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 14/02/2009 04:35:03

Hi Steve, congratulations on the new thread.

Just wanted to say hi and best wishes to all.

Glad to see the message expand!

Thanks Demo. I'm grateful for the solid platform that the POIS thread has provided to so many people, me included.

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 14/02/2009 04:47:48
Girlwind,

I have just this last Monday gotten free health insurance.In San Francisco all you have to be is a citizen and you are entitled to coverage...

You're lucky. I'm in the Monterey Bay area and we don't have health care like that. I paid out of pocket for all my tests and
it cost me close to $2000.  However, I do think it's worth it to KNOW EXACTLY what is off, and to be able to address that in
whatever way one can to correct it. Your list looks like a good start, but I think some of the other hormone tests would be
helpful as well. Good luck with it.

I do feel lucky. I asked for the full battery of tests that you suggested at my designated 'home' clinic. They didn't feel comfortable ordering them. I showed them the Waldinger paper, but very liberal though they are, I think it was a bit too much for them , so they passed the ball to the Endo. I'll ask again then.

In the meantime, in therapy tonight, I negotiated some more 'rest' days in my relationship. What that means specifically is that , though we are committed to not being orgasmic as a solution to POIS ( as we have been for 21 months) during a 'rest' day there is no 1) non-orgasmic sexuality and 2) no sexually arousing behaviors...just friends and partners, together...to reduce the remaining symptoms to a more manageable level.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: CertainlyPOIS on 14/02/2009 05:14:26
Hey guys we cant be breaking apart like this.  We are all perplexed by the same problem, we should be working together to finally reach a day when we all can say good byes with both smiles and tears on our face. It is too early for us to start separating. And we also dont have enough people and especially active people to separate like this.
I was just going to suggest Girlwind, Steve D and Demografx talk through their differences during pm inorder to bring the two forums back toghter.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 14/02/2009 07:22:07
My partner and I talked at great length tonight about our objectives and we are clear that we want to do whatever is necessary to heal my illness. I am grateful to her for her willingness. We looked up the word science and found

sci·ence n
1.   the study of the physical world and its manifestations, especially by using systematic observation and experiment (often used before a noun)



For me, the obvious question is “If this makes you sick, why do you do it?”. To solve a problem I need to be honest with myself. So, this is as honest as I can be at the moment:

Two reasons:
First: sex feels great
Second: to avoid the great loneliness associated with surrendering relationship

So what to do? It seems to us that there are three solutions to this perplexing problem at the moment...and that may change with new information

1) Learn to live alone…
2) Be in a relationship with no sex…
3) Be in a relationship where there are periods of no sexual contact and accept that when there are periods of great sex that there will also be concurrent and consequent periods of sexual illness, and I'm talking about non-orgasmic sex

We have agreed that 'systematic observation and experiment' may help and are going to do that this week...A little science couldn't hurt.

Steve D.


Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 14/02/2009 15:44:44
Hey guys we cant be breaking apart like this.  We are all perplexed by the same problem, we should be working together to finally reach a day when we all can say good
byes with both smiles and tears on our face. It is too early for us to start separating. And we also dont have enough people and especially active people to separate like
this. I was just going to suggest Girlwind, Steve D and Demografx talk through their differences during pm inorder to bring the two forums back toghter.

Some things work and some things don't. And it's good to have some of that "wisdom" to know the difference.

I'm excited to be part of this new forum. I see it providing an alternative to the POIS forum and an opportunity
to discuss more openly some of the issues that were dismissed too quickly as "frivolous" and/or argued away
as "scientifically untenable" on the other forum. My wish for all those who come here is that we have:

1) An INCLUSIONARY ATTITUDE pertaining to ALL ASPECTS of the "sexual illness syndrome"--both pre-orgasmic
and post-orgasmic, and anything in between.

2) A GREAT TOLERANCE for non-standard-medical thinking about answers to the above mentioned issue, not
just an assumption that because someone has a lot of AMA approved initials after their name, that their word is
somehow "the last word" on the subject, or qualified as "more superior" to the non-standard-medical  "word." 

3) SUPPORT & ENCOURAGEMENT, as well as a welcoming attitude, for those who recover using approaches that are
more holistically (non-standard-medically) oriented, and for those who are so diligently working on that. There is
a place for healthy skepticism, I will acknowledge that. But  too much suspicion and skepticism can be a destructive
alienating force, which can prevent people from being open and willing to share their stories. So I hope we can be
aware of that here.

4) ROOM FOR PERSONAL PERSPECTIVES on this issue. Because certain kinds of sex happen within "a context" of
some kind of "relationship," I very much appreciate hearing about how people deal with issues that come up with
their partners regarding these problems, how they negotiate them and work through them, or not.

Those are my needs, and will determine if I stick around or not. It takes A LOT of time and energy for me to write
up an informative intelligent post on these forums. Having serious limitations of each of the above, I don't want to
waste EITHER on things that don't work for me. But I will gladly give my input (from my 30 years of  experience
with information I've gleaned facing some very challenging health issues) on what I do know and what I'm learning
along the way.

So... What do you think, Steve?  How does this sound to you?
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 14/02/2009 17:11:57
My partner and I talked at great length tonight about our objectives and we are clear that we want to do whatever is necessary to heal my illness. I am grateful to her for her willingness.

So what to do? It seems to us that there are three solutions to this perplexing problem at the moment...and that may change with new information

1) Learn to live alone…
2) Be in a relationship with no sex…
3) Be in a relationship where there are periods of no sexual contact and accept that when there are periods of great sex that there will also be concurrent and consequent periods of sexual illness, and I'm talking about non-orgasmic sex

We have agreed that 'systematic observation and experiment' may help and are going to do that this week...A little science couldn't hurt.

Steve D.

Thanks for sharing this, Steve. Willingness for investigation is always a good thing. I'm glad to hear you have a compassionate
and understanding partner. I have this too, and it makes all the difference in the world.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 14/02/2009 21:22:35
Hey guys we cant be breaking apart like this.  We are all perplexed by the same problem, we should be working together to finally reach a day when we all can say good
byes with both smiles and tears on our face. It is too early for us to start separating. And we also dont have enough people and especially active people to separate like
this. I was just going to suggest Girlwind, Steve D and Demografx talk through their differences during pm inorder to bring the two forums back toghter.

Some things work and some things don't. And it's good to have some of that "wisdom" to know the difference.

I'm excited to be part of this new forum. I see it providing an alternative to the POIS forum and an opportunity
to discuss more openly some of the issues that were dismissed too quickly as "frivolous" and/or argued away
as "scientifically untenable" on the other forum. My wish for all those who come here is that we have:

1) An INCLUSIONARY ATTITUDE pertaining to ALL ASPECTS of the "sexual illness syndrome"--both pre-orgasmic
and post-orgasmic, and anything in between.

2) A GREAT TOLERANCE for non-standard-medical thinking about answers to the above mentioned issue, not
just an assumption that because someone has a lot of AMA approved initials after their name, that their word is
somehow "the last word" on the subject, or qualified as "more superior" to the non-standard-medical  "word." 

3) SUPPORT & ENCOURAGEMENT, as well as a welcoming attitude, for those who recover using approaches that are
more holistically (non-standard-medically) oriented, and for those who are so diligently working on that. There is
a place for healthy skepticism, I will acknowledge that. But  too much suspicion and skepticism can be a destructive
alienating force, which can prevent people from being open and willing to share their stories. So I hope we can be
aware of that here.

4) ROOM FOR PERSONAL PERSPECTIVES on this issue. Because certain kinds of sex happen within "a context" of
some kind of "relationship," I very much appreciate hearing about how people deal with issues that come up with
their partners regarding these problems, how they negotiate them and work through them, or not.

Those are my needs, and will determine if I stick around or not. It takes A LOT of time and energy for me to write
up an informative intelligent post on these forums. Having serious limitations of each of the above, I don't want to
waste EITHER on things that don't work for me. But I will gladly give my input (from my 30 years of  experience
with information I've gleaned facing some very challenging health issues) on what I do know and what I'm learning
along the way.

So... What do you think, Steve?  How does this sound to you?


I am humbled by the eloquence and comprehensiveness of your words, and could not agree with you more.

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 14/02/2009 21:46:19
I am humbled by the eloquence and comprehensiveness of your words, and could not agree with you more.

Steve D.

Thank you. I'm glad we're on the same page.
Happy Valentine's Day to you and your sweetie.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 15/02/2009 23:10:43
My partner and I talked at great length tonight about our objectives and we are clear that we want to do whatever is necessary to heal my illness. I am grateful to her for her willingness. We have agreed that 'systematic observation and experiment' may help and are going to do that this week...A little science couldn't hurt.
Steve D.

Thanks for sharing this, Steve. Willingness for investigation is always a good thing.

Girlwind.

My partner and I experimented with surrendering genital contact and arousal behaviors yesterday-on Valentine's Day. I personally think that romance is sublimated sexuality and it manifested positively, for us, in roses, a card and a diamond ring. We then went to church, a party and stayed the night together, all while being abstemious...and not surprisingly there were no signs of pre orgasmic sexual depletion. Neither of us plan to do this forever, but it's nice to know that, until there is another fool proof solution, that there is a way, difficult though it may be, to be totally well. I am grateful, humbled and thankful for her willingness.

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: underwater on 16/02/2009 00:55:44
Environmental Toxins and Sexual Dysfunction:
The other day I was thinking about the onset of GAD and possibly related sexual symptoms. 25 years ago I taught in a building for 3-4 years. Directly under the floor where I worked there were constant smells of skunk and other vermin. The administration sprayed on a regular basis. This lasted for the entire time I was there. Now as I recall, I periodically got drowsy and often felt extreme nervousness. This time period just happened to coincide with the onset of a serious panic/anxiety disorder and perhaps a related sexual dysfunction. I was prescribed powerful drugs by my psychiatrist at the time. In fact, it was in this building that I had an actual breakdown and had to seek help. I guess this question is for Girlwind: Do you think such exposure to these toxins (I don't know what they used) were powerful enough to cause Central Nervous System disruptions? I recall that these sprays had a terrible smell, but it didn't keep the skunks from returning in a few weeks.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: lyner on 16/02/2009 17:30:01
I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'? There are many ways of getting to orgasm - some can be pretty traumatic and could lead to severe hangover effects.

Sophiecentaur,

I'm curious about which techniques you are referring to as well.

SteveD.
When couples go to their Doctor about sexual matters it often turns out that they are actually 'doing it' in very unorthodox ways. For instance, it is often thought that you need to go 'hammer and tongs' in order to achieve or give 'satisfaction'. The content of lot of Porn would seem to confirm this (so I'm told!).
I was just wondering whether there may be something you could do about your problem by trying a range of alternative ways of getting and giving pleasure. It may, of course, be a problem which can't be solved in a straightforward way but I would always advise avoiding the 'big guns' of medicine until you've tried a few alternatives, yourself. Somehow, 'going to the Doctor' sets you on the 'ill' side of a line when you may not have been, initially.

Sex Therapy can be viewed as a joke cliche but it certainly manages to help some people. (Never used it  or sold it, I hasten to add - so this is not an advert.) Perhaps you could try - or there are acres and acres of bookshelves full  of serious treatments of the topic.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 16/02/2009 18:44:45
Environmental Toxins and Sexual Dysfunction:
The other day I was thinking about the onset of GAD and possibly related sexual symptoms. 25 years ago I taught in a building for 3-4 years. Directly under the floor where I worked there were constant smells of skunk and other vermin. The administration sprayed on a regular basis. This lasted for the entire time I was there. Now as I recall, I periodically got drowsy and often felt extreme nervousness. This time period just happened to coincide with the onset of a serious panic/anxiety disorder and perhaps a related sexual dysfunction. I was prescribed powerful drugs by my psychiatrist at the time. In fact, it was in this building that I had an actual breakdown and had to seek help. I guess this question is for Girlwind: Do you think such exposure to these toxins (I don't know what they used) were powerful enough to cause Central Nervous System disruptions? I recall that these sprays had a terrible smell, but it didn't keep the skunks from returning in a few weeks.


Underwater---

This is something that I (unfortunately) have a lot of personal first hand experience with. In the late
1980's I had a MAJOR chemical exposure due to a neighbor's MASS spraying of a now banned toxic
chemical--for termite control.

So the answer to your question is a resounding yes... toxins can wreak total HELL on your body, espe-
cially on your nervous and endocrine systems. As a matter of fact, the very WORST symptoms that I
had both immediately during and for many years after this "poisoning" episode were neurological and
brain related ones.

Though I am certainly much healthier now, I think that I still suffer the after-effects of that "poisoning"
episode, and I think many of those effects are still apparent in my neuro-endocrine system, which in-
cludes the pre and post orgasmic symptoms we are addressing in this forum. There is so very much
I have learned about this topic over the years! In my next post I will list some of the better sources of
information you can check out to learn more about how your past exposure could be affecting you,
and what you might be able to do about it.
 
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 16/02/2009 19:04:26
ARTICLES ON THE EFFECTS OF TOXINS ON THE NEURO and ENDOCRINE SYSTEMS

The Effect of Neurotoxins on Human Health
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/4301/sd19.html

The Effect of Endocrine Disruptors
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/qendoc.asp

Emerging Science On the Impact of Endocrine Disruptors On Intelligence and Behavior
http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/newscience/behavior/behav.htm



What Is Body Burden?
http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/whatisbb.htm

Polluted Bodies (SF Chroncile article on a 2003 study of "body burden" chemicals found in humans--
done by the Mt. Sinai School of Medicine in conjunction with the Environmental Working Group)

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/02/03/ED162110.DTL

Chemical Trespass: (Pesticides In Our Bodies and Corporate Accountability)
http://www.panna.org/docsTrespass/chemicalTrespass2004.dv.html



The Body Burden Toxins Test
http://blog.gaiam.com/blog/whats-your-body-burden-take-the-toxins-test/

The Ten Most Important Foods To But Organic
http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/eorganic.htm

Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: underwater on 16/02/2009 21:46:02
Girlwind--
I very much appreciate your response and all the references you have given.
I will begin to review them shortly---
Believe it or not, I have not swum in two weeks! I am trying to add rest to my therapies regarding all my conditions. I have replaced swimming however with long, easygoing walks. I also am worried about chlorine. I probably will return to the pool in due course, but who knows?
Thanks, and continued success with your experimentations-----------
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 17/02/2009 07:11:35
I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'? There are many ways of getting to orgasm - some can be pretty traumatic and could lead to severe hangover effects.

Sophiecentaur,

I'm curious about which techniques you are referring to as well.

SteveD.
When couples go to their Doctor about sexual matters it often turns out that they are actually 'doing it' in very unorthodox ways. For instance, it is often thought that you need to go 'hammer and tongs' in order to achieve or give 'satisfaction'. The content of lot of Porn would seem to confirm this (so I'm told!).
I was just wondering whether there may be something you could do about your problem by trying a range of alternative ways of getting and giving pleasure. It may, of course, be a problem which can't be solved in a straightforward way but I would always advise avoiding the 'big guns' of medicine until you've tried a few alternatives, yourself. Somehow, 'going to the Doctor' sets you on the 'ill' side of a line when you may not have been, initially.

Sex Therapy can be viewed as a joke cliche but it certainly manages to help some people. (Never used it  or sold it, I hasten to add - so this is not an advert.) Perhaps you could try - or there are acres and acres of bookshelves full  of serious treatments of the topic.


SophieCentaur,

For me , the requirements of any healthy relationship is the honest and open communication of feelings. Whether it be father/daughter, student/teacher, close friends, therapist/ client, or lovers and partners. I then find that adding commitment to this emotional intimacy creates the two conditions necessary for me to be open to being sexual...Those are prerequisites, for me. To answer your question "I wonder if it could be related to your 'technique'?" My partner and I are rather technically conventional for a heterosexual couple. We employ normal penal/vaginal, oral and manual techniques. So, what I'm experiencing is something different. I view it like alcoholism. An alcoholic, who drinks, experiences an "allergic' reaction to alcohol which is not what normal people experience when they drink. The only real solution is complete abstinence. That is how I experience orgasm. So I have stayed away from that for 21 months and plan to continue to do so. The challenge, as for an alcoholic, is to learn to live life happily, joyously and freely having surrendered whatever is causing the pain.

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 17/02/2009 07:18:31
Believe it or not, I have not swum in two weeks! I also am worried about chlorine. I probably will return to the pool in due course, but who knows?

Underwater,

I have found a pool which uses saline instead of chlorine. It's easier on the skin and they can keep the water several degrees warmer. It's expensive,but, for me, it's worth it.

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 17/02/2009 07:27:00
Environmental Toxins and Sexual Dysfunction:
The other day I was thinking about the onset of GAD and possibly related sexual symptoms. 25 years ago I taught in a building for 3-4 years. Directly under the floor where I worked there were constant smells of skunk and other vermin. The administration sprayed on a regular basis. This lasted for the entire time I was there. Now as I recall, I periodically got drowsy and often felt extreme nervousness. This time period just happened to coincide with the onset of a serious panic/anxiety disorder and perhaps a related sexual dysfunction. I was prescribed powerful drugs by my psychiatrist at the time. In fact, it was in this building that I had an actual breakdown and had to seek help. I guess this question is for Girlwind: Do you think such exposure to these toxins (I don't know what they used) were powerful enough to cause Central Nervous System disruptions? I recall that these sprays had a terrible smell, but it didn't keep the skunks from returning in a few weeks.


Underwater---
So the answer to your question is a resounding yes... toxins can wreak total HELL on your body, espe-
cially on your nervous and endocrine systems.

Girlwind,

I saw an earlier edition of this post which mentioned environmental effects. That was absolutely my experience. I spent  20 years working on my spiritual life, and stayed so focused on the 'inside job' that I did not notice I was living in an environmental sewer. Atlanta, where I lived for 25 years, has the second worst air pollution in the US. I finally looked up and saw what was going on...that's the reason I moved to San Francisco...The air!


PS It's good to be posting again!

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 17/02/2009 07:32:34
The Ten Most Important Foods To But Organic
http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/eorganic.htm

Girlwind,

My partner and I just read this together and loved it...We're hard core organics ourselves.

Thanks,

Steve and Diane
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 17/02/2009 19:18:08

Girlwind,

I saw an earlier edition of this post which mentioned environmental effects. That was absolutely my experience. I spent  20 years working on my spiritual life, and stayed so focused on the 'inside job' that I did not notice I was living in an environmental sewer. Atlanta, where I lived for 25 years, has the second worst air pollution in the US. I finally looked up and saw what was going on...that's the reason I moved to San Francisco...The air!

PS It's good to be posting again!

Steve D.

I had to take off my long post about the details of the hell I went through after that chemical exposure.
It brings back too many bad memories. So many people did NOT believe that I COULD HAVE become ill
from a toxic exposure. They insisted it was all caused by DEPRESSION, and wanted to medicate me for
it. The worst part is that I was so vulnerable at the time, that I almost bought into that. That is the kind
of internalizing that can kill you! If I had tried to "process it" exclusively as a psychological phenomenon
and not dealt with the physical causes, I would not have lived to tell the story of my recovery.

I think that's why I feel so strongly about dealing with the physical on its own terms, with the orgasmic
issue as well. I agree with you totally that willing acceptance (of that we cannot YET change) is the best
way to go. Even though I have made some progress in alleviating some of the more extreme symptoms
of POIS, I haven't arrived at a consistent "cure." Not until I know that I'm at at that place of total healing,
do I want to experiment with my fragile energy.


PS I didn't know Atlanta was so polluted! But San Francisco, in places, isn't that great either. Though I
suppose it's probably pretty good for a city. What matters is that it works well for you.


Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: underwater on 18/02/2009 04:56:38
Montery & San Francisco,
I could have guessed! Two of my favorite places. I once bought a 20 lb. book near Cannery Row and dragged it to San Francisco. The book contained engravings from around 1800, and about 50 were engraved by William Blake. These were from his original plates!!! William was frequently ill from the physical and spiritual pollution of London. He would have loved these discussions. Love in the sense that they would illuminate the mind and spirit despite the discomfort and pain of the subjects themselves. Steve, thanks for the saline pool suggestion. Right now however, my daily 2 hr. walks on the beach are divine. And Girlwind, some of my most enjoyable runs were in Monterrey. My second to last run of my life was in Monterrey four years ago. My very last one was in San Francisco two days later. If I recall, the poem "London" by Blake reveals his views of the human mind and the cultural difficulties related to sexuality.   
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 18/02/2009 09:36:41
I had to take off my long post about the details of the hell I went through after that chemical exposure.
It brings back too many bad memories. So many people did NOT believe that I COULD HAVE become ill
from a toxic exposure. They insisted it was all caused by DEPRESSION, and wanted to medicate me for
it. The worst part is that I was so vulnerable at the time, that I almost bought into that. That is the kind
of internalizing that can kill you!

Girlwind

I'm glad you saved yourself from their fatuous madness. Martin Luther King used to say "Sincere ignorance is the truest form of evil".

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 18/02/2009 09:51:39
'Math is the queen of sciences' 
 Dr. Caras ,CDC, Atlanta Ga.

Just need to check in...

Spent the day chaste by choice. Did three hours of prayer, two hours of meditating and one hour of swimming all in prep for a public speaking event tonight. It went very well and people got a message of healing, hope and humor. It was worth the sacrifice and work. The pre-orgasmic illness was completely absent which made me completely present.

I feel pleased, grateful and successful.

Steve D.

Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 18/02/2009 15:39:53
SOME USEFUL INFO. IN PREPARATION OF DOCTOR VISITS:

Hey Steve--I think you mentioned you were going in for a doctor visit some time soon, so here's some ideas that
might be helpful for you in that process.

I think it's always a good idea to be VERY WELL PREPARED for medical appointments, with as much of your own
personal medical data as possible. Since, your doctor will be working FOR YOU, just like any other "contractor,"
it's good to let her/him know early on in the visit what your key concerns are. For this reason I would consider
writing up a brief AGENDA for the doctor appointment, with a list of priorities that you wish to cover and any
questions you want to be sure to ask, and making two copies of it--one for you, one for the doctor. Because
some doctors can be quick to make their OWN agenda during visits with them, dismissing some of the patient's
needs in the process, I am a big advocate of the patient making clear his/her agenda early on. Also, it ensures
that you won't forget all that you want to cover with the doctor, including any of THE DIAGNOSTIC TESTS you'd
like to request.

In addition, it's helpful to bring: 

1) copies of any PAST BLOOD TEST RESULTS,
2) a type-written CHRONOLOGICAL MEDICAL HISTORY, and
3) a separate page with the MAIN CURRENT SYMPTOMS, including brief explanations about each of them,
4) a list of ALL MEDICATIONS AND SUPPLEMENTS that you've tried, both ones that have and haven't been effective.

I've seen A LOT of doctors over the years, and I've always done better when I came in to the appointment really
well-prepared, with my health concerns well documented, and my questions typed out.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 18/02/2009 15:41:41
I'm glad you saved yourself from their fatuous madness. Martin Luther King used to say "Sincere ignorance is the truest form of evil".

Steve D.

That's a great quote. I'm going to remember it! thanks
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 19/02/2009 05:35:44
Girlwind,

Thanks for the tip. I'll be prepared. Called my home clinic to find out the date of my Endo appointment , but no call back, yet.

I've been taking a 'fearless and searching moral inventory' of my food the last 3 weeks (moral=healthy, here) Weighing and measuring using a digital scale, using a food plan, following it strictly and notating the numbers afterward, as well. I'm lean and muscular but my weight used to fluctuated 2-8 pounds very easily.

As the anemia is gone, the POIS is at bay and my weight is very stable I feel like a new man. Hell... I feel almost normal!

Steve D.


Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 19/02/2009 05:45:55

What Is Body Burden?
http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/whatisbb.htm


The Body Burden Toxins Test
http://blog.gaiam.com/blog/whats-your-body-burden-take-the-toxins-test/



Girlwind,

My partner and I read these tonight and concurred...crucial stuff. Thanks.

Steve and Diane
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 21/02/2009 04:18:19
Check in:

Challenging day...My daughter has a serious staff infection and needed to be taken to the hospital for treatment. I raised her by myself and her welfare is important to me.
No pre or post orgasmic illness symptoms today, just life on life's terms...and it's a beautiful, breezy day her in SF, for which I am grateful

Girlwind,

Food is a big issue with me so I started another thread 9 days ago for people interested in using wheatgrass as a healing food. Check it out and see what you think.

Steve

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=20278.0
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 21/02/2009 06:11:46
Girlwind,

Food is a big issue with me so I started another thread 9 days ago for people interested in using wheatgrass as a healing food.
Check it out and see what you think.

Steve

Hmmmm... wheat grass is not that interesting of a topic to me. I eat what I feel I need and don't try
to be too strict about it. Right now my main focus is on getting my hormones balanced. Many years
(30 actually) of supplements and all organic eating routines have NOT done the trick to heal me of
CFS or POIS, so it was time to expand my repertoire to the bio-identical hormones and see what they
can do for me.

I am beginning my fourth week of HC (hydrocortisone) and feel a little more stamina than usual. And
soon I will add the thyroid hormone and see what happens.

Good luck with the wheat grass, and with the skeptics who are arguing with you about its effectiveness.   [:)]
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 21/02/2009 06:47:15

Hmmmm... wheat grass is not that interesting of a topic to me. I eat what I feel I need and don't try
to be too strict about it. Right now my main focus is on getting my hormones balanced. Many years
(30 actually) of supplements and all organic eating routines have NOT done the trick to heal me of
CFS or POIS, so it was time to expand my repertoire to the bio-identical hormones and see what they
can do for me.

I am beginning my fourth week of HC (hydrocortisone) and feel a little more stamina than usual. And
soon I will add the thyroid hormone and see what happens.

Good luck with the wheat grass, and with the skeptics who are arguing with you about its effectiveness.   [:)]

Girlwind

I'm used to fools, so I don't listen much to them.

I'm quite interested in pursuing the hormonal possibilities. I called my 'home' clinic Glide Memorial ,yesterday and the Endo has asked the Nurse Practitioner a question that apparently she must answer before he agrees to the appointment. Anyway that's what the gal in charge of appointments said yesterday, So we'll see.

Good luck on the HC . Let me know how that works out for you.

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 21/02/2009 17:26:12
Girlwind

I'm used to fools, so I don't listen much to them.

I'm quite interested in pursuing the hormonal possibilities. I called my 'home' clinic Glide Memorial ,yesterday and the Endo has asked the Nurse Practitioner a question that apparently she must answer before he agrees to the appointment. Anyway that's what the gal in charge of appointments said yesterday, So we'll see.

Good luck on the HC . Let me know how that works out for you.

Steve D.

I'm glad that "the fools" don't tweak you out too much. That's a good thing.

HERE'S MY THOUGHTS ON "DIET"

Diet is so BIG of a topic, one that I have explored SO MUCH in my past, that I'm not inclined to give it
much more of that obsessive attention I used to. I probably tried all the fad New Age diets at one point
or another--from macrobiotics and being vegan, to egg-and-fish only vegetarianism, from all cooked
food with lots of medicinal herbs (TCM inspired), to all raw (which lasted about a week, due to the fact
that I was FREEZING COLD from it).... etc....

I was so ill and so debilitated that I would have tried ANYTHING that anyone suggested in order to get
my health back. Even standing on my head and gargling with peanut butter! But I have to say that no
diet was enough to correct some of the BIG imbalances in my body. No matter how "perfectly" I did the
diets, they all failed to heal me of CFS. They just were NOT enough. (That's where the supplements and
Chinese herbs and acupuncture did help--without them I would have remained mostly void of energy.)

After 20 years of listening to other people's theories and ideologies about what was RIGHT & WRONG to
eat, I finally got to a place where I began trust my own body and my very clean palate to tell me what I
needed. At this point I haven't eaten "junk"--sugar loaded, processed foods, and hardly anything in a
"package" for a few decades. I eat all fresh, organic, and mostly cooked food in winter; much more raw
food in warmer months. I avoid grains, eat few  "sweets," like fruits and sweet vegetables with a high
glycemic index (carrots, beets, parsnips), alcohol and stimulants with caffeine or chocolate, except on
special occasions. The sugar content in those foods does not work for my metabolism, and I know that
because I almost always become hungry after a predominantly grain meal, or one where there is too
much "sweet" food. The mainstay of my diet is vegetables, both raw and cooked, and decent amounts
of protein from animal sources at each meal--eggs, meat and some raw goat dairy products. In winter
I long-cook big pots of soup--with the bones, and lots of garlic and spices added to keep me toasty and
warm. And in summer I make big rich smoothies: my favorite is with avocados, tomatoes and cukes fresh
from my garden, a little salt, and lots of cayenne powder. I call them guacamole smoothies. Those are so
good, and as filling as a big meal.

Mostly, I eat as above, but I'm not rigid about my own rules. If my body says... I need bananas... then
I go out and get some, and eat one a day until I feel the craving diminish. I know when I eat the "wrong"
thing for me, because my body will tell me LOUDLY by: 1) an obvious drop in my energy 2) a negative
change in my mood, like in cranky and/or depressed not long after eating, or 3) a feeling of not being
satisfied, of having on-going hunger and food cravings soon after a meal.

Wheat grass comes and goes for me, as necessary. If I want it, I can buy it fresh squeezed at the deli at
the health food store. But my preference is fresh wild greens--picked in early spring. My partner knows
where to find the best ones: nettles, sorrel, fresh radish and mustard greens. They are coming up right
now. And.. these last two weeks I have been jonesing for the collards from the farmer's market--yum!
So good cooked with a little olive oil and some garlic!

So that is my treatise on food. I have said enough, and now I'm off to cook my special recipe for Indian
style curried chicken.  I'm having some guests for dinner tonight--my birthday was this week. Bon appetite!


Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 22/02/2009 08:34:40

HERE'S MY THOUGHTS ON "DIET"

>>>>I was so ill and so debilitated that I would have tried ANYTHING that anyone suggested in order to get
my health back. Even standing on my head and gargling with peanut butter!

LOL!!!!!!


>>>> But I have to say that no
diet was enough (That's where the supplements and
Chinese herbs and acupuncture did help--without them I would have remained mostly void of energy.)

I do acupuncture four times a week and drink a Chinese herbal teas made of 12 herbs and roots and drink four ounces three times a day...really helps.
As far as supplements I take iron, B-12, vitamin D, cod liver oil in the morning and again at night cod liver oil, Multi vitamin , B complex and tonight added C and nutritional yeast


>>>>After 20 years of listening to other people's theories and ideologies about what was RIGHT & WRONG to
eat, I finally got to a place where I began trust my own body and my very clean palate to tell me what I
needed. I eat all fresh, organic, and mostly cooked food in winter; much more raw
food in warmer months.

That sounds like wisdom


>>>I avoid grains,

me, too


>>>eat few  "sweets,

ditto


>>>no alcohol and stimulants with caffeine or chocolate,

I can't do any of these. I have a very strong allergic reaction


>> In winter I long-cook big pots of soup--with the bones, and lots of garlic and spices added to keep me toasty and
warm. And in summer I make big rich smoothies: my favorite is with avocados, tomatoes and cukes fresh
from my garden, a little salt, and lots of cayenne powder. I call them guacamole smoothies. Those are so
good, and as filling as a big meal.

This sounds delicious


>>>>>Mostly, I eat as above, but I'm not rigid about my own rules. If my body says... I need bananas... then
I go out and get some, and eat one a day until I feel the craving diminish. I know when I eat the "wrong"
thing for me, because my body will tell me LOUDLY by: 1) an obvious drop in my energy 2) a negative
change in my mood, like in cranky and/or depressed not long after eating, or 3) a feeling of not being
satisfied, of having on-going hunger and food cravings soon after a meal.

There is such intuitive wisdom, here


>>> But my preference is fresh wild greens--picked in early spring. My partner knows
where to find the best ones: nettles, sorrel, fresh radish and mustard greens. They are coming up right
now.

Where does he find these things?


>>>my birthday was this week

Happy Birthday


>>>>>So that is my treatise on food.

Thanks Girlwind that was delightful
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 22/02/2009 08:41:11
My partner and I agreed, at my request, on a 'rest day' today...No arousal behaviors. I needed to garner my energy for a big teaching day tomorrow.

We went to church instead, did yoga for an hour together, I practiced Hendrix tunes I'll teach tomorrow while she cleaned up the dinner I made her while she napped earlier.

It was a very nice night...

POIS is dead and buried and I am free...
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 22/02/2009 18:36:12
>>> But my preference is fresh wild greens--picked in early spring. My partner knows
where to find the best ones: nettles, sorrel, fresh radish and mustard greens. They are coming up right
now.

Where does he find these things?

Thanks Girlwind that was delightful

Many greens can be found growing wild all over the Bay Area. You just want to be sure to pick them
"off trail" so they aren't contaminated by car exhaust, dog piss, etc. I'm sure the Mt. Tam area has lots.
They're growing rapidly right now because of the recent rain, and will be too big--less tasty and more
tough if they're picked at a later stage in their growth. I'm lucky that my partner is a naturalist and has
a lot of experience picking wild foods--mushrooms, greens, and blackberries in summer, with which
he makes the most amazing desserts. I am less knowledgeable about these things, but learning as I go.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 22/02/2009 18:50:57
Check in:

My partner and I have agreed to another 'rest day' today and I will request another for tomorrow (Monday) because I am going to do a large public speaking event. I find consistently that when I need extra sparkle in my personal performance that I can reach down deep inside of me and find it in the restrained, pooled, redirected energy that is sexual energy inside of me. I am so grateful that I have this energy revenue source...Not that I don't love sex, I surely do!

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 22/02/2009 21:12:27

I find consistently that when I need extra sparkle in my personal performance that I can reach down deep inside of me and find it in
the restrained, pooled, redirected energy that is sexual energy inside of me. I am so grateful that I have this energy revenue source...
Not that I don't love sex, I surely do!


I see sexual energy like extra money in the bank. If you spend it unwisely, you're "screwed." AND you pay for it
later. I'm glad you have the discipline  to manage it like you do. Me too. I can't afford the loss it entails when I'm
wasted from an orgasm. Even though I have made progress, it's still nebulous and I don't want to risk the level of
exhaustion that comes when my body can't afford to lose that reserve. I'm hoping my ongoing hormone therapy
will resolve this and give me back the energy I need not just for sex, but for better overall functioning. That would
be a real healing for me.

Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 22/02/2009 22:14:12

I see sexual energy like extra money in the bank. If you spend it unwisely, you're "screwed." AND you pay for it
later. I'm glad you have the discipline  to manage it like you do. Me too. I can't afford the loss it entails when I'm
wasted from an orgasm.


Girlwind,

To be perfectly frank, your capacity to manage your sexuality ( here defined as being sexual, but not orgasmic) is what attracted me to your "recovery" from POIS  above all the others I've communicated with online about this subject. Your willingness to let go of what was hurting you and yet stay faithful to your relationship is commendable and noteworthy...Hell, it's just plain, old fashioned courage.

Steve D.

Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 22/02/2009 23:17:40

I see sexual energy like extra money in the bank. If you spend it unwisely, you're "screwed." AND you pay for it
later. I'm glad you have the discipline  to manage it like you do. Me too. I can't afford the loss it entails when I'm
wasted from an orgasm.


Girlwind,

To be perfectly frank, your capacity to manage your sexuality ( here defined as being sexual, but not orgasmic) is what attracted me to your "recovery" from POIS  above all the others I've communicated with online about this subject. Your willingness to let go of what was hurting you and yet stay faithful to your relationship is commendable and noteworthy...Hell, it's just plain, old fashioned courage.

Steve D.

Thank you for the compliment. It's really not hard to make efforts to steer clear of pain and exhaustion. My 30
years with CFS has been the MAJOR challenge. POIS, in contrast, is a piece of cake.  (pardon the sugar)  [:)]

I feel VERY VERY blessed to have a (male) partner, who is cooperative with both my low energy and my POIS.
There are not a lot of men who would be content to reframe their definition of "intimacy" in the way that my
partner has been willing to. Most people, especially men, want their sex "plain and simple," without all the fuss
and complications of a health issue attached.

Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 23/02/2009 07:05:53

I feel VERY VERY blessed to have a (male) partner, who is cooperative with both my low energy and my POIS.
There are not a lot of men who would be content to reframe their definition of "intimacy" in the way that my
partner has been willing to. Most people, especially men, want their sex "plain and simple," without all the fuss
and complications of a health issue attached.


I, too, am grateful for my partner's willingness to negotiate and be flexible around this difficult sexual issue, pre and post orgasmic.


Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 24/02/2009 06:57:14
Spoke tonight and it went very well. The rest days were fraught with difficult emotional challenges, but the fruit was that , after I spoke tonight, my daughter asked if she could come back again and considered joining this spiritual fellowship.I wept with gratitude...

I beat the pre orgasmic disease to death the last three days and got this gift of the possibility of my daughter's health as a result.

Cool...


Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 24/02/2009 07:28:35
Girlwind,

Called my nurse practitioner today to see what the hold up is with my Endo appointment, but got no reply...You can't push a rope

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 24/02/2009 16:02:28
Hey Steve--Just an FYI for you. I heard that zinc deficiency can cause a loss of smell. Martin from the POIS forum told me
about this. I thought it might be helpful for you, after reading the wheat grass forum.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 25/02/2009 06:43:49
Hey Steve--Just an FYI for you. I heard that zinc deficiency can cause a loss of smell. Martin from the POIS forum told me
about this. I thought it might be helpful for you, after reading the wheat grass forum.

Thanks Girlwind,

Emailed Martin. He seems like a kind and gentle man.

Steve D.

PS...My Endo apparently will not see me as he believes that POIS is 'not and endocronological problem'
What are ya gonna do?


Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 25/02/2009 16:42:12
Hey Steve--Just an FYI for you. I heard that zinc deficiency can cause a loss of smell. Martin from the POIS forum told me
about this. I thought it might be helpful for you, after reading the wheat grass forum.

Thanks Girlwind,

Emailed Martin. He seems like a kind and gentle man.

Steve D.

PS...My Endo apparently will not see me as he believes that POIS is 'not and endocronological problem'
What are ya gonna do?

Martin can be very helpful. He's a good researcher.

Sorry about the endo. But it doesn't surprise me. They are known as the "accountants" of medicine. Not exactly open-minded
when it comes to a patient's symptoms and subjective experience, and more focused on DATA and numbers. You might have
to just do all the tests through a regular GP or go to MyMedLab.com and order your own tests. Once you have some documen-
tation, the endo MIGHT be more open to you. If not, a good naturopath can help, as they are allowed to prescribe bio-identical
hormones.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 26/02/2009 06:02:14
Girlwind,

Let me ask you a question.

At first , on a feelings level, I felt  hurt and kind of shut down by the Endo's refusal and a little shamed by his claim that POIS is a sexological problem, not an endochronological problem.  But I've been meditating on that a bit...

I know you love and care for yourself an a heroic manner and I respect that greatly, because I do that for myself as well. What caught my attention about your shares/posts was that you had the raw guts to stop being orgasmically sexual, because it was hurting you and, at the time , there appeared to be no other sure solution to this disease...and I respect that, because that 's what I do. I've also heard you say that POIS is only one of your health challenges and, if I remember correctly, not the main one. I, too, have many ,many health challenges, this only being the latest. After reading your personal posts for over two months I am now fully convinced of the wisdom and value of all the testing that is available and I am doing everything I can to avail myself of those results, and will continue to do so.

All that being said. Suppose that this Endo is right and that the whole POIS forum is way off the trail here. Suppose this is like alcohol for alcoholics or sugar for food addicts and is simply something that should be refrained from...as you and I are actually doing. Suppose that the endo testing is wise, useful, self-loving and important for our health, but that for us POIS sufferers, if we are to be truly well, that we must simply let this behavior go.

I love the truth, no matter how terrible it my be...and I was just wondering what you thought about all this.


All that being said, The Waldinger testing that he refers to at the end of his treatise. Can you tell me what those tests were designed for?


Respectfully and lovingly yours,

Your friend,

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 26/02/2009 16:23:38
Hi Steve--

I appreciate your sincerity and openness about your experiences. I thank you for being supportive of mine as well.
As for the Endo's refusal... I understand your hurt feelings, but really this is a very predictable thing. I have been
on SEVERAL other forums over the past year, looking to find answers for my multi-health issues, and I can tell you
there are literally THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE out there COMPLAINING ABOUT POOR HEALTH CARE and INEPT DOCTORS!
I can't begin to stress this enough. It's actually quite frightening. Just yesterday on the POIS forum, Limejuice posted
his experience with an endo that he had to be VERY aggressive with in order to be heard. Fortunately, he actually
got what he wanted! Which is, UN-fortunately, not the usual case.

What I've learned along the way with searching for answers to my hormonal issues is that if you have ANY kind of
imbalance in that area (thyroid, adrenal, gonadal, etc), you'd better be very diligent at doing your OWN reading and
research about it, getting your own blood work done in whatever way you can, and knowing as much as you possibly
can about your condition before you go to a doctor. Those people who've been the most informed on their conditions
have definitely fared the best at both FINDING a doctor who will take them seriously and GETTING the HELP that they
need from that doctor.

When you consider the staggering number of people who aren't getting their thyroid addressed, it's truly frightening.
The statistics state AT LEAST 13 MILLION CASES IN THE US OF UNDIAGNOSED HYPOTHYROID. Which puts you at more
than two times higher risk for having a heart attack!  WHY is this happening? All because most doctors (including the
endos) do not give people the most definitive tests to uncover a thyroid problem--the Free T3 and Free T4. They are
so cemented into the TSH being the great holy grail of tests that they remain glued in to their agenda, even when it's
not working to help their patients.  You can read more about this from the sites I have posted below.

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/mercola.htm
http://www.thyroid-info.com/

For me personally this adventure into learning about my hormonal imbalances has been a real eye opener, as I am
one of that 13 MILLION statistic above. For all I know my hypothyroid could be one of the MAIN reasons for my 30
years worth of CFS. That's 30 years of 17 doctors MISSING the diagnosis because none of them bothered to do the
right tests! As I proceed through with my treatment of the thyroid it is certainly becoming very apparent what a big
role its dysfunction has played in my ongoing exhaustion. And that is only ONE of the hormones that showed a de-
ficiency in my blood work. I am also low in cortisol, testosterone, DHEA, estrogen. Though for now I am staying
focused on just on the thyroid and adrenals. I don't want to overwhelm my body with too many changes at once.

As for the endo's conclusion that this POIS thing is a "sexological"problem, I personally don't buy it. But that does
not mean I intend to push for orgasm at all costs. I intend to avoid it as much as I can UNTIL I have all my hormones
coming back to an optimal range.  Sometimes I have noctural orgasms, which I can't control, but that's when I have
the opportunity to see how my body fares after such an "event." And I will say that there is definite improvement on
the post orgasm exhaustion. Yay! After all that work, it's good to know the effort has SOME payoff.

My angle on this, Steve, is that POIS is just the tip of the hormone iceberg of problems that I have. I'm going to leave
absolutely NO STONE UNTURNED to find the balance my hormones need, and probably have needed for three very
long decades. It's going to be a long ride I know, but at this point I feel settled in for the journey.


Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 26/02/2009 17:51:58
I appreciate your sincerity and openness about your experiences. I thank you for being supportive of mine as well.
As for the endo's conclusion that this POIS thing is a "sexological"problem, I personally don't buy it. But that does
not mean I intend to push for orgasm at all costs. I intend to avoid it as much as I can UNTIL I have all my hormones
coming back to an optimal range. 

Thanks Girlwind.

>>>>I intend to avoid it as much as I can UNTIL I have all my hormones
coming back to an optimal range. 

That's what I'm doing. I am treating it as though it is sexological, but, I am willing to being open to a hormonal solution if there is one. What I will not do, and I see you not doing as well, is engage in self destructive sexual behavior. For me, doing that is sexually addictive behavior and is not endochronological... but rather, clearly, sexalogical.

I am going to call my nurse practioner again today and request she send Waldinger's treatise to the Endo. In order that I be more prepared, can you tell me exactly what the tests below mean that Waldinger used on his two patients ?


Laboratory investigation was normal, apart from features of primary tes-
ticular insufficiency; total testosterone 8 nmo1/1 (ref. 8.3–34 nmo1/1) , free
testosterone 30 pmo1/1 (ref.: 45–108 pmo1/1), dehydroxytestosterone 0.62
nmo1/1 (ref: 0.90–3.70 nmo1/1), LH 5.7 U/1 (ref: 1.5–12.0), FSH 25.8 U/1
(ref: 2.0–8.0), prolactine 210 mU/1 (ref: 75–275 mU/1).


Endocrine investigation revealed eugonadism: total testosterone 14.8 nmo1/
1 (ref 8.3–34.0 nmo1/1), SHBG 20 nmo1/1 (ref 20–55 nmo1/1), LH 3.2 U/1
(ref: 1.5–12.0), FSH 4.6 U/1 (ref: 2.0–8.0), PSA 0.4 μg/1 (ref < 4.0 μg/1).


Thanks in advance,

Steve D.


Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 26/02/2009 19:36:57

I am going to call my nurse practioner again today and request she send Waldinger's treatise to the Endo. In order that I be
more prepared, can you tell me exactly what the tests below mean that Waldinger used on his two patients ?

Laboratory investigation was normal, apart from features of primary testicular insufficiency;
total testosterone 8 nmo1/1 (ref: 8.3–34 nmo1/1),
free testosterone 30 pmo1/1 (ref: 45–108 pmo1/1),
dehydroxytestosterone 0.62 nmo1/1 (ref: 0.90–3.70 nmo1/1),
LH 5.7 U/1 (ref: 1.5–12.0),
FSH 25.8 U/1 (ref: 2.0–8.0),
prolactine 210 mU/1 (ref: 75–275 mU/1).

Endocrine investigation revealed eugonadism:
total testosterone 14.8 nmo1/ 1 (ref 8.3–34.0 nmo1/1),
SHBG 20 nmo1/1 (ref 20–55 nmo1/1),
LH 3.2 U/1 (ref: 1.5–12.0),
FSH 4.6 U/1 (ref: 2.0–8.0),
PSA 0.4 μg/1 (ref < 4.0 μg/1).

Hi Steve--I think you will be much better off in the long run if you learn how to read the lab results yourself.
It's really pretty simple. The way it's listed here is in the order of: 1) Name of Test  2) Result 3) Reference Range.
I put it in columns to make it easier for you, and I will describe it for you below so you can get the gist of it.

These results mean that the first person was: a little low in total testosterone, very low in free testosterone
and dehydroxytestosterone, high in FSH, and more or less in THAT LAB'S NORMAL RANGE on the other tests.
Hence the conclusion was "primary testicular insufficiency."

The second person was on the low end in SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin), and in THAT LAB'S NORMAL
RANGE on other tests. That's probably why W. describes that case as "eugonadism."

Personally, I'm not that inspired by Waldinger. I think he had only a small limited number of patients that he
investigated. And he didn't show much interest in helping us at the POIS forum. Also, his test list doesn't in-
clude ANY thyroid tests (or ferritin, which is so important in thyroid functioning), or DHEA, or even cortisol.
WHY?  All the hormones work together and it seems that a thorough work-up would include more lab data.

Because my health problems are much more serious than POIS, I've moved on to studying the WHOLE PICTURE
of my entire hormone profile, and what that means to me in real life terms. The tests I've listed on this forum's
first page are very comprehensive and covered most of what I needed to know. I hope they'll be of help to you too.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 27/02/2009 01:02:22
Because my health problems are much more serious than POIS, I've moved on to studying the WHOLE PICTURE
of my entire hormone profile, and what that means to me in real life terms. The tests I've listed on this forum's
first page are very comprehensive and covered most of what I needed to know. I hope they'll be of help to you too.

 Girlwind,

I needed to have some rationale for requesting these tests. Waldinger apparently did not think this was a sexological problem or he wouldn't have ordered the endocronological tests. I don't think that this Endo will address this problem. He'll only look at the vitamin D, B-12 and iron deficiencies...but I'll query him.

Thanks,

Steve D.


Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 27/02/2009 14:19:33
Girlwind,

I needed to have some rationale for requesting these tests. Waldinger apparently did not think this was a sexological problem or he wouldn't
have ordered the endocronological tests. I don't think that this Endo will address this problem. He'll only look at the vitamin D, B-12 and iron deficiencies...but I'll query him.

Thanks,
Steve D.

I understand. However, you should know that you DO NOT NEED AN M.D. to order blood tests. Any acupuncturist,
or even a chiropractor, can do that for you. And now you can even order them yourself ay MyMedLab.com  Once you
have the RESULTS in your hands, with PROOF of any imbalances, then it's easier to get a doctor (maybe even an endo)
to pay attention to your issue. I know it's backasswards, but that is the unfortunate reality of the medical world.

"Faith is an island in the setting sun, but PROOF is the bottom line for everyone." (Paul Simon)   [:)]
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 27/02/2009 14:46:23
Check in, 2/26/09:

My partner and I have been intentionally abstemious for five days from arousal behaviors. Last night, we engaged in arousal behaviors, but no genital contact. I felt kind of blurry early in the day, but that may be attributable to a strong antibiotic and cough medicine I took last night. The pre-orgasmic effects of sex are still very real for me.
  However , having dialed down the genital contact to zero has made me extremely present the last six days and I have been on fire in my life as a consequence. My teaching has improved, my emotional availability for my daughter is dramatically increased and my musical practicing has increased. I've done two public speaking engagements , my food is dramatically better (this may be the biggest change). I cleaned out a closet and several cabinets, been more powerfully available for spiritual mentorship, gardened more, took my first swim lesson in 45 years and even spent some time watching Youtube...just for fun.

 I am grateful and committed to my partner for her unselfish willingness to participate in this experiment to heal pre orgasmic sexual illness.

Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 27/02/2009 15:07:30
I think you will be much better off in the long run if you learn how to read the lab results yourself.  However, you should know that you DO NOT NEED AN M.D. to order blood tests.  I know it's backasswards, but that is the unfortunate reality of the medical world.

Girlwind,

I am currently scheduled for:
CBC,
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel,
Iron Panel,
Lipid Panel,
Vitamin B-12
T4, Free,
TSH Ultrasensitive,
T3 Total,
Testosterone, Free and Total
Vitamin D level

Part of loving myself comes in the form of taking care of myself physically , including good medical care. Another part of loving myself is taking care of myself financially. The above tests are all free for me. I'll spend some time researching what other tests mean and what might be helpful. The MyMedLab.com sight was very enlightening.

Thanks,

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 27/02/2009 15:36:35
I am currently scheduled for:
CBC,
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel,
Iron Panel,
Lipid Panel,
Vitamin B-12
T4, Free,
TSH Ultrasensitive,
T3 Total,
Testosterone, Free and Total
Vitamin D level

Part of loving myself comes in the form of taking care of myself physically , including good medical care. Another part of loving myself is taking care of myself financially. The above tests are all free for me. I'll spend some time researching what other tests mean and what might be helpful. The MyMedLab.com sight was very enlightening.

Most of those tests will be pretty helpful to determine: any basic nutritional deficiencies, issues with iron absorption, fat
metabolism/cholesterol, and glaring immunity issues. The CMP will also reveal some things about basic liver and kidney
functioning.

Regarding the thyroid tests: If you can replace the T3 Total with a Free T3 that is the MUCH MORE DEFINITIVE test. It
actually tells you how much thyroid hormone is actively circulating in the blood. As I recall, your previous tests indicated a
low in one of the thyroid hormones, so if it was me I would want an update on that. Also, a TPO (for thyroid antibodies)
would be helpful. And the Reverse T3 is very revealing for those of us with adrenal issues (mine was WAY OFF.)

The Free T3 was THE DEFINITIVE TEST IN MY CASE. Had I not done it, I would have NOT KNOWN that I have a problem
with my thyroid. If only someone had done that test 30 years ago, it could have spared me many years in hell.

You can read more about the importance of getting the most useful thyroid tests in these articles.

http://www.mercola.com/article/hypothyroid/diagnosis_comp.htm
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/mercola.htm
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 27/02/2009 16:47:40
Steve--

I just remembered that you had some issues with low iron...? Is that correct.  If so, you want to be sure to have
FERRITIN test. Hopefully that is included in your iron panel.

With TOO LOW FERRITIN your body cannot utilize the T3 (thyroid hormone). It would not have enough red
blood cells to carry thyroid hormone to the tissues.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 27/02/2009 20:25:43
Girlwind

Did you learn anything personally  from your LSH and FSH?

Steve
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 27/02/2009 21:44:19
Girlwind

Did you learn anything personally  from your LSH and FSH?

Unfortunately I did those tests at the WRONG time of month, so they were inconclusive. (It would have been a good
idea if the doctor had specified this to me BEFORE I wasted my money on them!)


HERE'S WHAT I READ ABOUT THE LH and FSH TEST online:

"When is the LH TEST ordered?
In women and men, LH (along with FSH) is ordered as part of the workup of infertility and pituitary or gonadal disorders.

The test may be ordered along with an FSH test if a women is having irregular menstrual periods to help determine if she has reached
menopause. LH and FSH may be ordered when a boy or girl does not appear to be entering puberty at an appropriate age (either too
late or too soon). Signs of puberty may include: breast enlargement in females, growth of pubic hair, genitalia growth in males begin-
ning of menstruation in females.

If any or some of these signs appear at a younger than average age or are delayed beyond the expected age range for puberty, it may
be an indication of a more serious problem involving the hypothalamus, pituitary, gonads (ovaries or testes), or other systems. The
measurement of LH and FSH may differentiate between benign symptoms and true disease. Once it is established that symptoms are a
result of true disease, further testing can be done to discern the underlying cause."

"How is FSH TEST used?
FSH is often used in conjunction with other tests (LH, testosterone, estradiol, and progesterone) in the workup of infertility in both
men and women. FSH levels are used to help determine the reason a man has a low sperm count. FSH levels are also useful in the
investigation of menstrual irregularities and to aid in the diagnosis of pituitary disorders or diseases involving the ovaries or testes.
In children, FSH and LH are used to diagnose delayed or precocious (early) puberty."


Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 28/02/2009 03:25:43
Girlwind
Did you learn anything personally  from your LSH and FSH?
Unfortunately I did those tests at the WRONG time of month, so they were inconclusive. (It would have been a good
idea if the doctor had specified this to me BEFORE I wasted my money on them!)


Girlwind,

Sorry that happened to you...LH and FSH, along with total testosterone, are the only tests common to Waldinger's two original patients. My NP has already ordered Testosterone, Free and Total. I thought, using this document, I might  be able to persuade them to do LH and FSH. However , I got a call from her today and she says that Waldinger's paper is a 'case study, not a recognized syndrome' and that it is 'old, 6 years old', and that the Endo will not see me for that purpose, although I am free to ask him about it when I see him...and I will.

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 28/02/2009 17:43:31
Girlwind,

Sorry that happened to you...LH and FSH, along with total testosterone, are the only tests common to Waldinger's two original patients. My NP
has already ordered Testosterone, Free and Total. I thought, using this document, I might  be able to persuade them to do LH and FSH. However,
I got a call from her today and she says that Waldinger's paper is a 'case study, not a recognized syndrome' and that it is 'old, 6 years old', and
that the Endo will not see me for that purpose, although I am free to ask him about it when I see him...and I will.

Steve D.

Endo Schmendo, no comprendo.   [:)] [:)] [:)]   Doctors can be so predicatable.


Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 01/03/2009 10:18:02
Girlwind,

Called my NP and requested the LH and FSH testing... We'll see.

My partner and I just finished eight days of no genital contact with five of those being without any arousal behaviors...It was challenging for me because I am strongly attracted to her, but it was galvanizing and powerfully productive for me in every other way. I'm not naturally inclined to strive for balance, but periods of chastity interspersed with periods of active, non-orgasmic sexuality is a moderate compromise which, for me, reduces the negative effects of Pre-orgasmic illness syndrome. Thank goodness the post orgasmic stuff is now a dead issue, for me.

Hope you are well and prospering.

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 01/03/2009 19:28:16
Hi Steve--

Thanks for posting your progress report, your exercise in self-discipline and self-care. I'm happy for the
success that your efforts have gleaned you.

I just finished my first month of HC treatments, and am having some slow and steady results with perking up my
adrenals. At this point I am much more focused on CFS (my primary health issue) than I am on POIS or the sexual
illness syndrome, so I probably won't be posting much more. I have found some other forums that seem to suit
my needs a little better, and provide me with the support I was looking for as I proceed forward with my current
adrenal and thyroid treatment regimens. I'll check in on occasion to see how you are doing here.  My best to you. 

~~Girlwind
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 01/03/2009 20:52:26
I'll check in on occasion to see how you are doing here.  My best to you. 
~~Girlwind

Be well my friend,

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 09/03/2009 17:59:25
For the past couple months I have been doing extensive reading on adrenal and thyroid related health issues.
I am in the process of treating my own adrenal and thyroid deficiencies and have been given a lot of good info
from people on other forums, which concurs with what I learned from Michael8028.  Here are  some of the more
informed articles I've read. I hope you find some of them as useful as I did. I will post this info on the POIS forum
as well.


ABOUT ADRENAL FATIGUE
http://www.adrenalfatigue.org/whatis.php

ADRENAL SUPPORT (Copied from THE GREAT THYROID SCANDAL and HOW TO SURVIVE IT
by Dr. Barry Durrant-Peatfield)
http://featherstone.bravehost.com/thyroid/peatfieldadrenal.html

METABOLIC THERAPY: Adrenal Thyroid Correction
http://www.drrind.com/metabolic.asp

Pathways of adrenal steroid biosynthesis in adrenal cortex
http://www.umanitoba.ca/dnalab/med/adr3.htm

UNDERSTANDING ADRENAL FUNCTION
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/08/27/adrenals.aspx

TESTS FOR ADRENALS
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

The Adrenal Stress Index Test
http://www.chronicfatigue.org/ASI.html

ADRENAL INSUFFICIENCY UNDERDIAGNOSED INTHE CRITICALLY ILL
http://www.pulmonaryreviews.com/jan03/pr_jan03_adrenal.html

Pathways of adrenal steroid biosynthesis in adrenal cortex
http://www.umanitoba.ca/dnalab/med/adr3.htm


David Derry, MD, Ph.D on RETHINKING THE TSH TEST
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/david-derry.htm

Stop the Thyroid Madness.com
http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

Thyroid hormones as neurotransmitters.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9001201

Molecule Derived from Thyroid Hormone May Be New Neurotransmitter
http://pub.ucsf.edu/today/news.php?news_id=200405175

Thyroid hormones, serotonin and mood: of synergy and significance in the adult brain
http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v7/n2/abs/4000963a.html

The Depression Thyroid Disease Connection Explored
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/cohendepression.htm

Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: underwater on 11/03/2009 03:34:12
Steve---
Glad to see you are doing well. As Girlwind has mentioned, POIS is also just "The Tip of the Iceberg" for me also. My major concern is an anxiety condition that has not lifted in 22 months now. Sometimes I get quite depressed and dizzy. Orgasmic sexuality is my LEAST concern. Today I had a fabulous day as I was able to meditate far out on a jetty in the ocean for 2 hours. A squirrel was sunbathing next to me.
I have taken a break from swimming, as I need to rest my Trapezius muscles that may be causing some of my anxiety. My major goal is simple: Peace of Mind
As you noticed, I have not commented on the effects of arousal with respects to orgasmic sexuality. But I do know that for me, arousal is the cause of considerable inflammation and discomfort, even without ejaculation. This is because my nervous system does not specifically differentiate between certain sexual stimulation. Simply put, high levels of stimulation cause intense, disabling responses, and low levels cause low levels of uncomfortable responses. I'm trying to stay away from all stimulation now and just get back to a more tranquil existence. HELLO GIRLWIND IF YOU READ THIS
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 11/03/2009 05:33:09
Steve---
Glad to see you are doing well.  Orgasmic sexuality is my LEAST concern. As you noticed, I have not commented on the effects of arousal with respects to orgasmic sexuality. But I do know that for me, arousal is the cause of considerable inflammation and discomfort, even without ejaculation. This is because my nervous system does not specifically differentiate between certain sexual stimulation.  My major goal is simple: Peace of Mind

Underwater,

So glad to hear from you. Orgasmic sexuality  does not concern me in the least,either . It will be 22 months on Thursday since I was orgasmically sexual. However, my nervous system can distinguish between different phases of sexuality in increasing levels of intensity, very subtly and very clearly. The more intense the sexual activity, the more dopamine is produced in my brain, the more hungover I feel...Very, very simple. As for my major goal. It is as yours is...peace of mind. For me, I find it one way only...surrendering sexuality, one day at a time.

Currently, my partner and I have genital contact, without orgasm, of course, for two days and then have a 'rest day' That is our pattern. So, I have peace typically every third day.Today is anomalous for us in that it is the fourth rest day in a row, by choice.

Once again, So glad to hear from you.

Steve D.
 

PS>>>I have taken a break from swimming.
I've actually just started taking swimming lessons for the first time in 45 years and am enjoying it!
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 11/03/2009 05:39:24
Girlwind,

Thank you for the links. I am grateful and am reading through them all, one at a time.

Hope you are healthy and thriving. I am able to leave some of the health issues behind, a little bit at a time, and just begin to do more 'normal' things like work on my career and make money. I couldn't do that, wisely, without dealing first with POIS, anemia and food ...but, I am reasonably happy with all those issues now. Whew!

Thanks for being a part of that, for me.

Your friend,

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 13/03/2009 14:10:39
Six days of rest days in a row!

It's been challenging and very productive for me...
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 14/03/2009 03:27:58
Girlwind,

Thank you for the links. I am grateful and am reading through them all, one at a time.

Hope you are healthy and thriving. I am able to leave some of the health issues behind, a little bit at a time, and just begin to do more 'normal' things like work on my career and make money. I couldn't do that, wisely, without dealing first with POIS, anemia and food ...but, I am reasonably happy with all those issues now. Whew!

Thanks for being a part of that, for me.

Your friend,

Steve D.

Hi Steve--

I have been very involved in learning the art of balancing hormones, particularly cortisol. It's a LOT more complex
than I thought and requires a serious commitment to daily monitoring. I take my temperature 3 times a day and
graph it. I take my blood pressure at least once a day--sitting, then standing. I have to pay very close attention
to what I'm eating--high protein, low carbs, and plenty of Emergen-C, to keep potassium and sodium at optimal
levels, and to keep my blood sugar stable. I have to be very careful about how much I exercise, as my adrenals heal.

I have gotten a lot of good info on the topic of adrenals and thyroid, much of which I've passed along to you here.

I have not yet even begun to treat my thyroid yet, but am ever so s-l-o-w-l-y working up to that point. As I have
learned from other thyroid patients on other forums, the adrenals need to be at an optimal level BEFORE you begin
thyroid hormone, or it will not be tolerated. With that there is a risk of side  effects like palpitations and anxiety,
which I prefer to pass on!

The POIS is very secondary to me now. The big issue is my long term CFS, which along with POIS, are just symptoms
of the hormones being in various states of deficiency. I'm so glad to be on the right track--finally. It only took 31
years.

Good luck with all your "normal" things. I will check in some other time to see what's up. 
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: girlwind on 15/03/2009 16:07:28
Steve---
Glad to see you are doing well. As Girlwind has mentioned, POIS is also just "The Tip of the Iceberg" for me also. My major concern is an anxiety condition that has not lifted in 22 months now. Sometimes I get quite depressed and dizzy. Orgasmic sexuality is my LEAST concern. Today I had a fabulous day as I was able to meditate far out on a jetty in the ocean for 2 hours. A squirrel was sunbathing next to me.

HELLO GIRLWIND IF YOU READ THIS

Hello Underwater-- Some of your symptoms remind me of mine. You might want to read up on the
adrenals and get your cortisol levels tested. I posted a lot of good articles here and on the POIS site.
Good luck whatever you do.  ~GW
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 15/03/2009 22:37:39
Eight days of perfect chastity...and all the power, clarity, intuition, resilience and vision that accompanies it.

Ended it last night. Fun, but costly. No orgasm, of course.

It's all 'bout choices... 
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 19/03/2009 08:57:51
My partner and I have agreed on a 10 day sexual abstinence period starting yesterday, Wednesday March 18.
I have some career opportunites coming up that I want to be present for and I don't want SIS (sexual illness syndrome) to interfere with my being at the very most optimum I can be.
I am grateful to my partner for her graciousness, unselfishness and willingness.

Steve D.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: gement on 15/08/2009 19:08:06

I have had POIS for at least 20 years. My psychiatrist told me that these symptoms although rare, has been found among patients who suffer with major depressive disorder (neuro transmitter imbalance). The anti-depressant medications have never helped relieve these specific symptoms, and Ive been on all of them. Since some of these symptom are similar to those of an allergic reaction, I have experimented, by treating the POIS with antihistamine. There is one that helps relieve the intensity of the symtoms by at least 85%, it is called Loratadine. It is an over the counter antihistamine allergy medication(CVS store brand, less expensive) that will last for 24 hours. Note: Should be Loratadine 10mg. I will take 1 hour before or short time after orgasm. Since my symptoms last about 3 days, I will take a 2nd dose after 21 hours, then a 3rd dose after another 21 hours. I will feel 85% symptom free during those 3 days and until next orgasm. I hope that sharing this information can be helpful.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: SteveD on 25/06/2010 06:40:56
I have not posted for 18 months. 9 months ago I completely stopped being sexual with my partner and all signs of Pre-orgasmic illness (25% of the problem) and Post Orgasmic Illness (75% of the problem) disappeared. There has been no pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization, no depression, no fatigue, no confusion...nothing, absolutely no signs. This tells me that this problem is, for this particular class of individual (Me), only solved with complete sexual abstinence...exactly like that of an alcoholic.

What baffled me so, 18 months ago, on the POIS board was the complete unwillingness to consider chronic masturbation as as addiction, an illness that requires specific 12 step treatment. I've seen what sex addicts in their disease are like with their white rage and control and want no part of that type of abuse I experienced 18 months ago.

But, the truth remains the truth, regardless of control, rage and abuse.

I have not masturbated for 20 years this Saturday June 26th 2010...and that helped me greatly. It taught me that if I could not stop doing something that was hurting me I needed to get help, and I had the humility to do that, 20 years ago.

It did not solve the problem completely. Three years ago I gave up being orgasmic and like the POIS BOYS, it helped enormously.

Still the problem was not solved. When I stopped being sexual completely the problem disappeared.

All the pills, powders, vitamins, teas, patches, shots and therapies avoid the only important question: If you're doing something that hurts you, why don't you stop?

There are four sexual addiction programs in the world that can help you. If you have an individual, who you are letting control you, which stops you from getting the help you need, you may need to go to CODA first, to get away from him.

Live free...it's your right

Steve D.
 
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: demografx on 25/06/2010 18:13:14

What baffled me so, 18 months ago, on the POIS board was the complete unwillingness to consider chronic masturbation as as addiction
 

You have absolutely no evidence of POIS as a chronic masturbation phenomenon.

Many sufferers are loving and happily married men and even for procreation purposes still suffer the agonizing and devastating aftereffects of POIS.

Please check your facts more carefully. Thank you.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: demografx on 25/06/2010 18:29:57

Three years ago I gave up being orgasmic and like the POIS BOYS, it helped enormously.

Still the problem was not solved. When I stopped being sexual completely the problem disappeared.

All the pills, powders, vitamins, teas, patches, shots and therapies avoid the only important question: If you're doing something that hurts you, why don't you stop?
 

The "POIS BOYS" have also discovered that being a eunuch doesn't solve the problem either.

We are sexual beings, given nature's gift of orgasm.

Several of us have found wonderful solutions with "patches, pills, etc.", and on the verge of finding even better ones.

Not to hide a problem, but to SOLVE a neurochemical/physiological problem, i.e., hormal imbalance, neurotransmitter deficiency and the like.
Title: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: pois on 01/12/2011 06:44:39
I have this...
Title: Re: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: badgerstripe on 19/01/2012 14:44:44

Three years ago I gave up being orgasmic and like the POIS BOYS, it helped enormously.

Still the problem was not solved. When I stopped being sexual completely the problem disappeared.

All the pills, powders, vitamins, teas, patches, shots and therapies avoid the only important question: If you're doing something that hurts you, why don't you stop?
 

The "POIS BOYS" have also discovered that being a eunuch doesn't solve the problem either.

We are sexual beings, given nature's gift of orgasm.

Several of us have found wonderful solutions with "patches, pills, etc.", and on the verge of finding even better ones.

Not to hide a problem, but to SOLVE a neurochemical/physiological problem, i.e., hormal imbalance, neurotransmitter deficiency and the like.


I believe sexuality and orgasm to be nature's (god's?) gift and don't intend to give up sex. POIS and other issues has slowed down the regularity of sex for me.
I have successfully been down the sexual addiction recovery route too and it has helped in some ways but not with POIS. The aim there was to have an emotionally healthy sexual life which i believe i have. I have wondered if it is related to my POIS at times, perhaps from overindulging in 'O' frequency in my teens and early twenties (O's once a day on average). The condition may have been pre-existing and completely un-related to this however. The etiology seems complex and may be different for different people.

Sex addiction, like CFS, may be related to POIS for some people, maybe not.

The physical reasons for this really need researching and I have just contacted Dr Goldmeier in London (local to me) asking him for an appointment.
Title: Re: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: mrraba on 20/01/2012 03:09:32

Three years ago I gave up being orgasmic and like the POIS BOYS, it helped enormously.

Still the problem was not solved. When I stopped being sexual completely the problem disappeared.

All the pills, powders, vitamins, teas, patches, shots and therapies avoid the only important question: If you're doing something that hurts you, why don't you stop?
 

The "POIS BOYS" have also discovered that being a eunuch doesn't solve the problem either.

We are sexual beings, given nature's gift of orgasm.

Several of us have found wonderful solutions with "patches, pills, etc.", and on the verge of finding even better ones.

Not to hide a problem, but to SOLVE a neurochemical/physiological problem, i.e., hormal imbalance, neurotransmitter deficiency and the like.


I believe sexuality and orgasm to be nature's (god's?) gift and don't intend to give up sex. POIS and other issues has slowed down the regularity of sex for me.
I have successfully been down the sexual addiction recovery route too and it has helped in some ways but not with POIS. The aim there was to have an emotionally healthy sexual life which i believe i have. I have wondered if it is related to my POIS at times, perhaps from overindulging in 'O' frequency in my teens and early twenties (O's once a day on average). The condition may have been pre-existing and completely un-related to this however. The etiology seems complex and may be different for different people.

Sex addiction, like CFS, may be related to POIS for some people, maybe not.

The physical reasons for this really need researching and I have just contacted Dr Goldmeier in London (local to me) asking him for an appointment.

Sex can be a very beatiful and spiritually uplifting thing.   I respect the fact you found a way to deal with the situation.  Part of the acceptance philosophy is to accept that something has worked for others.

Abstenance does not work for me.  I get the nightly emission if I abstain for long, period.  So why pay for not eating the beautiful fruit just if one had? 

Also histamines are at play here.  With longer abstenance ysex drive increases, specially with enviornmental allergens such as spring, mold, etc.   Then it becomes a inflamation issue of great proportions.  If I do not clear my system I feel progressively weaker.  So different things work for different people.
Title: Re: Could I have a Sexual Illness Syndrome?
Post by: pois on 02/09/2012 11:12:03

Three years ago I gave up being orgasmic and like the POIS BOYS, it helped enormously.

Still the problem was not solved. When I stopped being sexual completely the problem disappeared.

All the pills, powders, vitamins, teas, patches, shots and therapies avoid the only important question: If you're doing something that hurts you, why don't you stop?
 

The "POIS BOYS" have also discovered that being a eunuch doesn't solve the problem either.

We are sexual beings, given nature's gift of orgasm.

Several of us have found wonderful solutions with "patches, pills, etc.", and on the verge of finding even better ones.

Not to hide a problem, but to SOLVE a neurochemical/physiological problem, i.e., hormal imbalance, neurotransmitter deficiency and the like.


I believe sexuality and orgasm to be nature's (god's?) gift and don't intend to give up sex. POIS and other issues has slowed down the regularity of sex for me.
I have successfully been down the sexual addiction recovery route too and it has helped in some ways but not with POIS. The aim there was to have an emotionally healthy sexual life which i believe i have. I have wondered if it is related to my POIS at times, perhaps from overindulging in 'O' frequency in my teens and early twenties (O's once a day on average). The condition may have been pre-existing and completely un-related to this however. The etiology seems complex and may be different for different people.

Sex addiction, like CFS, may be related to POIS for some people, maybe not.

The physical reasons for this really need researching and I have just contacted Dr Goldmeier in London (local to me) asking him for an appointment.

Sex can be a very beatiful and spiritually uplifting thing.   I respect the fact you found a way to deal with the situation.  Part of the acceptance philosophy is to accept that something has worked for others.

Abstenance does not work for me.  I get the nightly emission if I abstain for long, period.  So why pay for not eating the beautiful fruit just if one had? 

Also histamines are at play here.  With longer abstenance ysex drive increases, specially with enviornmental allergens such as spring, mold, etc.   Then it becomes a inflamation issue of great proportions.  If I do not clear my system I feel progressively weaker.  So different things work for different people.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/Smileys/default/smiley.gif
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/Smileys/default/cool.gif






Sex is a beautiful thing. Agreed...God was having a fine day at the office when he/she invented sex...LOL!!!

Wine is a beautiful thing , too...for most people. Some people are alcoholics though and wine is very bad for them.
Sugar is very fun and sweet, but some people are food addicts and they are allergic to it. They feel 'pitifully and incomprehensibly demoralized" whenever they eat sugar.

  The addiction model, is infinitely more successful, for me, than the medication model that the POIS boys use.
  I am grateful to them for their interest in Waldinger's discoveries, but no one is successful at treatment over there. I care about successfully solving this problem. I do NOT care if it is the way that I want it to be solved. That is simply selfish, stupid and immature.
  What I do know is that complete abstinence solves the problem, so the question, for me, is how to accept this solution and learn to live happily and contentedly. I have learned to do that the last three years...and I have not had one trace of the phenomenally devastating effects of POIS that ruined my life for four decades.
   ;)Once again, my hat is off to the courage and strength of the POIS boys stick-to-it-ive-ness.
Be careful with them though. Despite their claim to scientific objectivity, they become enraged when you don't agree with them...