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  1. Naked Science Forum
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  3. New Theories
  4. Can conscious thought act on matter?
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Can conscious thought act on matter?

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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Can conscious thought act on matter?
« Reply #40 on: 27/06/2022 13:24:22 »
Quote from: Eternal Student on 23/06/2022 23:26:31
Science is less concerned about why or what some ultimate truth might be and more concerned with having an explanation and a model that is useful for making predictions.   
What does science say that can be used to answer the question in the op?
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Can conscious thought act on matter?
« Reply #41 on: 27/06/2022 13:31:00 »
Quote from: Alex Dullius Siqueira on 24/06/2022 19:53:36
Even if a highly ultimate technology, would comunicante trough physical means.
 There a wire or even light it's not different from my hands.
We usually call them interfaces. They can be biological neurons, implanted electrodes, or non-invasive brain wave sensors.
Currently, humans can affect matter on Mars, because we have the necessary interfaces and actuators.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can conscious thought act on matter?
« Reply #42 on: 27/06/2022 15:59:03 »
Quote from: hamdani yusuf on 27/06/2022 13:24:22
What does science say
It usually says "Please specify exactly what the question means".
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Offline Halc

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Re: Can conscious thought act on matter?
« Reply #43 on: 27/06/2022 18:19:23 »
Quote from: Alex Dullius Siqueira on 24/06/2022 19:53:36
Then again: Can conscious thought act on matter?
 What do you expected? 😂

 Proof? Ok.

 My brain thinks.
 My brain move my hands.
 My hands shape a ball made of Clay.
The clay wasn't necessary. The hands moved. That's enough to illustrate the point. I totally agree. The question was asked in a classical manner, and that's a classical answer.
So the question now is, what's all the fuss? Who would deny that?
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Offline hamdani yusuf

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Re: Can conscious thought act on matter?
« Reply #44 on: 27/06/2022 23:16:19 »
Quote from: Halc on 27/06/2022 18:19:23
So the question now is, what's all the fuss? Who would deny that?
It seems that some people are convinced that consciousness can have effects on matter without physical interface which can be analyzed, modeled, and manipulated. This would make consciousness looks magical. But that's how magic tricks are usually done. Show audiences the beginning and the end of a process while hiding something in between. Some misdirections can amplify the effects of mythical confusions.
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Offline Deecart

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Re: Can conscious thought act on matter?
« Reply #45 on: 27/06/2022 23:17:59 »
Quote
The clay wasn't necessary. The hands moved. That's enough to illustrate the point. I totally agree. The question was asked in a classical manner, and that's a classical answer.
So the question now is, what's all the fuss? Who would deny that?

And the hand is not accurate too.
Here, we are talking about something else : Wave function collapse.
Quote from: Wikipedia
In quantum mechanics, wave function collapse occurs when a wave function—initially in a superposition of several eigenstates—reduces to a single eigenstate due to interaction with the external world. This interaction is called an observation, and is the essence of a measurement in quantum mechanics, which connects the wave function with classical observables such as position and momentum. Collapse is one of the two processes by which quantum systems evolve in time; the other is the continuous evolution governed by the Schrödinger equation.[1] Collapse is a black box for a thermodynamically irreversible interaction with a classical environment.[2][3]

Calculations of quantum decoherence show that when a quantum system interacts with the environment, the superpositions apparently reduce to mixtures of classical alternatives. Significantly, the combined wave function of the system and environment continue to obey the Schrödinger equation throughout this apparent collapse.[4] More importantly, this is not enough to explain actual wave function collapse, as decoherence does not reduce it to a single eigenstate.[2][5]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave_function_collapse

So, how somebody can interact from any point of the earth to make a wave collapse ????!!!!!!


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Offline Alex Dullius Siqueira

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Re: Can conscious thought act on matter?
« Reply #46 on: 28/06/2022 01:36:10 »
Actually the clay was necessary as the body is related with the consciousness.
 Rejecting the shaping of the clay ball is to reduce consciousness down to a single cell firing electrons.
  The ability to make a ball of clay it's necessary for it to act over matter.
 The hands moving by command should be enough, only that the vessel it's part of the whole.
  Also would raise the spiritual problem as it can't yet to be confirmed.
 By splitting consciousness from it's shell, the body, it's to say that consciousness it's recieves rather than developed.

 If consciousness it's developed by the brain, the hands are part of the network and can't be neglected.

 Proof of that people with amputated limbs do still feel they moving normally by command.

 The other question now it's:
 Should the human body to be considered as "interface"?
Given it's never truly "bound" to its environment makes wonder.

 A radio signal, receptor and sender have a specific function.
 But the body doesn't seem to be "made" to see the smallest, that can cause some mess with the particles, as a glitch if it's a consious system it's observing.
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Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Can conscious thought act on matter?
« Reply #47 on: 28/06/2022 09:35:50 »
" Can conscious thought act on matter?"
If it didn't, we wouldn't know it existed (other than our own).
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