1

Chemistry / What is Sodium Nitrite?? Also what is used for ??

« on: 18/07/2010 14:39:33 »

What are you planning to eat?

Apples, apricots, almonds and many other plants have cyanide in them.
As discussed, lots of green veg have nitrate.
Potatoes and tomatoes have solanine and/ or related toxins.
You have a choice of foods treated with fungicides, which may be toxic, or foods that are untreated and will probably be affected by fungi; some of the most potent carcinogens known are fungal products.
Then you cook the food or face an increased risk of food  poisoning from uncooked food.
Cooking produces other materials- probably the most famous is acrylamide- which are carcinogenic.
Cooked meat (particularly roast or fired) contains a whole bunch of heterocyclic amines that are known carcinogens.

And yet we are all living longer healthier lives than any of our ancestors.

Incidentally, re. the government and the permitted limits. It used to be a long-running joke that the Russians had the world's strictest controls on worker's exposure to industrial chemicals.
They also had just one inspector and his deputy to cover the entire USSR.

What are you planning to eat?

Apples, apricots, almonds and many other plants have cyanide in them.
As discussed, lots of green veg have nitrate.
Potatoes and tomatoes have solanine and/ or related toxins.
You have a choice of foods treated with fungicides, which may be toxic, or foods that are untreated and will probably be affected by fungi; some of the most potent carcinogens known are fungal products.
Then you cook the food or face an increased risk of food  poisoning from uncooked food.
Cooking produces other materials- probably the most famous is acrylamide- which are carcinogenic.
Cooked meat (particularly roast or fired) contains a whole bunch of heterocyclic amines that are known carcinogens.

And yet we are all living longer healthier lives than any of our ancestors.

Incidentally, re. the government and the permitted limits. It used to be a long-running joke that the Russians had the world's strictest controls on worker's exposure to industrial chemicals.
They also had just one inspector and his deputy to cover the entire USSR.

Bored Chemist, I'll eat most fresh fruit and/or fresh veg, not
almonds, I don't like them. But yes I do know that their kernels have cyanide in them.
I like fresh apples, apricots, peaches, nectarines, avocados, potatoes, tomatoes etc, etc.

Although I've been eating fresh fruit and fresh veg also fresh fish all of my life. But they all contain vitamins and certain but necessary chemicals. Like chlorophyll in green leaves. 
and so on. I cook lots of my food unless it fruit(s(.

I do know the old joke about the single food inspector for the whole of the
former USSR.

2

Chemistry / What is Sodium Nitrite?? Also what is used for ??

« on: 18/07/2010 14:27:53 »

As long as your kidneys are working properly the potassium is not going to make any difference. There's lots of it in your diet and the body uses what it needs and excretes the rest in the urine.

We have been eating nitrates since ever we existed, they are present in quite a variety of green vegetables.

Some of the nitrate we ingest will be metabolised by gut bacteria to nitrite.

Some, but not all of that nitrite will go on to form nitrosamines.
If it reacts with a primary amine then you will get a little nitrogen gas and the corresponding alcohol. Since proteins are full of primary amines, most of the nitrite will be degraded this way.
If some reacts with secondary amines to form nitrosamines then there is a risk that these will cause cancer.

However, you need to look at the other side of the risk/benefit analysis too.
Putting nitrites (or nitrates) into things like quiche will stop botulism from growing in it; it also reduces the growth of other bugs. (They also make meat products look more pink/red which improves their selling power)

You are trading a very small risk of cancer against the small risk of death from food borne bacteria.

Hi Bored chemist, thanks for your answer, but I don't drink alcohol so
that's irrelevant.

I am aware that nitrates are in most if not all foods but it's nitrItes
that I've eaten in that quiche but will never ever purchase again.

Yes we all have loads of bacteria in our bodies including our guts and
some can become dangerous like salmonella. But that's not a cancer causing
thing.

Although your comment about me possibly dieing from nitrites, I will die
one day anyway.

3

Chemistry / What is Sodium Nitrite?? Also what is used for ??

« on: 18/07/2010 10:26:04 »

I believe that nitrates are metabolized into nitrites. Interesting story I heard (don't know if it is true), Potassium nitrate (KNO3) was used as an anti-erectile. I'm not sure if this is true, and if it is, for how long it was used I don't know. On the potassium side I figured the lethal dose of KNO3 to be about 50 grams, that is acute exposure of course. The danger of the nitrates and nitrites is chronic.

Bill.D.Katt, that is an interesting story, potassium is naturally in all fresh green leaves eg salads, spinach and so on
even fresh fruit which I eat loads of.

Those measurements of nitrates and nitrites are worrying if
they really are chronic.

 

4

Chemistry / What is Sodium Nitrite?? Also what is used for ??

« on: 17/07/2010 22:43:17 »

Ok we are all Human! I was not in a full coherent mode and probably still unable to get there.
 The details do seem to have spread across the big pond too.  There are concerns

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/com2004650.pdf

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/EFSA/efsa_locale-1178620753812_1178712852460.htm

http://www.ethicalcorp.com/content.asp?ContentID=2923

http://www.healthfoodemporium.com/index_dangerous-ingredients.php

I can not seem to find anything more current

The Salt thing was a metafore... e.g. "take it with a grain of salt", which means,  "to say take my opinion lightly."
The rat thing was not to be meant as total fact, just an imaginary process to get an idea of how and why results are determined, as an example. I guess I messed that up too.
.

OK, tommya300 Thanks for the very interesting articles especially the first one from the EU. I've bookmarked it.

I do know that phrase "take it with a grain/pinch of salt", alright
about the rats.
No you didn't make a mistake but I'm clearly learning stuff that I never
thought possible about every day food(s).

Although since NitrItres are cancer causing to the liver is worrying
and has been known since the 1970s.

lightarrow


"when the average of two analyses shows concentrations of nitrate that exceed 10 milligrams per liter (parts per million), or nitrite concentrations that exceed 1 milligram per liter, public drinking water suppliers are required to notify their customers to provide an alternate source of drinking water for all liquids or foods prepared for infants under six months of age."

Don't know if it refers to USA or UK or else, anyway Italy is more restrictive for what concerns nitrites = NO2-, since the limit is only 0.5 milligrams per liter (for nitrates is less restrictive, since the limit is 50, however there is also the limit: [NO3-]/50 + [NO2-]/0.5 < 1).

lightarrow, when I noticed that you live in Italy then I thought that
you might be aware of the EU food laws.
That is interesting to know that Italy is far more restrictive with Nitrates and Nitrites, if only the UK governments were the same.

But if Nitrites are dangerous then they should never have been put in any sort of food, I think.

5

Chemistry / What is Sodium Nitrite?? Also what is used for ??

« on: 17/07/2010 22:18:19 »

What is a "quiche"? I don't find it in the dictionary.
[/quote]

lightarrow, I'll do my best to explain what a "quiche" is.
It's a French version of a savoury flan or an un-covered pie.
The word comes from the Garman for Cake (kuchen)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiche

Rosalind

6

Just Chat! / Neil's almost got 20,000 posts!

« on: 17/07/2010 15:50:55 »

Congrats Neil on your 20,000+ post(s),
Hugs and see you

7

Chemistry / What is Sodium Nitrite?? Also what is used for ??

« on: 17/07/2010 15:47:49 »

It is a preservative that is added to a lot of food, to improve shelf life. Also present in smoked meats and to a small extent in all preserves.

Just remember that all chemicals are toxic in high enough doses, but can be good for you in small amounts.

Thanks SeanB for your answer and I am aware that all chemicals are toxic
only table salt was not banned in 1976, in the UK, Europe and USA.
I think that the UK food laws are also covered by the European food laws !

But the very fact that nitrItes are cancer causing is worrying to me and
probably yourself as well.


   

tommya300

Yep, I do believe the old saying is, "to too much of a good thing, is bad"...
Although this subject question does not refer to gluttony the phrase might fit.

I think whatever, a presumably creditable, committee is responsible in putting together, particular studies, they have some way to determine the acceptable level limits of the particular types of toxic chemicals before they have a major affect on a particular percentage of the public.

 I have no idea what or how they come to these conclusions, but just a scenario that can give a rough idea, "It was found by "X" - institute, that rats get cancer in a week after given some quantity dosage, of some type of particular chemical."
Most likely from studies from different institutions, under controlled conditions.
The scary part is the uncertainty of correctness!
 Sometimes they get some error results unknowingly and post these results to the public, as being the do all end all results...

 Then after a certain duration in time, the error is discovered because of some unknown variable and this is posted, changing that do all end all previous results...

"Oh no," we say!
Now what we the public need to do is decide between the two or if it is critical then the correction imposed by a ban and removing out of reach to the consumer or new regulations etc...
This info I gathered from the news and other article in the USA. Sometimes I feel like the public is being tested and this all is just a personal insight of my observation and can be taken with a non toxic level of Sodium Chloride, a grain or two..
.
« Last Edit: Today at 15:11:30 by tommya300 »

Tommya300, first I have a small appetite and knew when I saw that quiche
that it looked and tasted odd.

I do understand that you found the articles from an USA angle, but I've
said that I'm British so think of food laws to do with UK and European laws. Nope I am not a lawyer.

Sodium Chloride is the technical name for table salt !

Rats get GM version of cancer weekly not naturally, I think.
Sodium Nitrite is scary because it's a carcinogenic chemical and
if near skin it can produce rashes.

lightarrow

What sodium nitrate or nitrates in general have to do with nitrites?
(Also, why the title is sodium "nitrates"? There is only one sodium nitrate...)

lightarrow, I bought a quiche last week that had Sodium Nitrite in it
and I thought that I'd imagined it so I double checked today with a similar
food, it has that chemical in it.
But your links were interesting although they frightened me, a little bit.
I've reacted badly to it.

8

Chemistry / What is Sodium Nitrite?? Also what is used for ??

« on: 17/07/2010 10:23:25 »

I wonder if you can help me sort out this question please that's been
bothering me for a while now.

Recently I bought a quiche with bacon, eggs, pastry but also with
Sodium Nitrite. It seems a bit odd to have a chemical in any food,
I think.

What is this chemical and is harmful to humans?

If so what kind of reaction might they have?

Thanks loads,
Rosalind

.
I found this exert if it helps a little...
I bet that there is more to it that someone else knows more of this subject in depth.

"Sodium nitrite is a dangerous, cancer-causing ingredient that has no place in the human food supply," he explains. The USDA actually tried to ban sodium nitrite in the 1970's, but was preempted by the meat processing industry, which relies on the ingredient as a color fixer to make foods look more visually appealing. "The meat industry uses sodium nitrite to sell more meat products at the expense of public health," says Adams. "And this new research clearly demonstrates the link between the consumption of processed meats and cancer."
 
http://www.organicconsumers.org/foodsafety/processedmeat050305.cfm

Here is something that will turn your socks inside out...

Sodium Nitrates
Sodium Nitrates are also known as Chilates or Chilean nitrate. The Nitrogen contained in Sodium Nitrate is refined and amounts to 16%. This means that the Nitrogen is immediately available to plants and as such is a valuable source of Nitrogen in a type of fertilizer. When one makes a soil amendment using Sodium Nitrates as a type of fertilizer in the garden, it is usually as a top- and side-dressing. Particularly when nursing young plants and garden vegetables. In soil that is acidic Sodium Nitrate is quite useful as a type of fertilizer. However, the excess use of Sodium Nitrate may cause deflocculation.

http://www.landscape-and-garden.com/garden-soil/fertilizer-types.aspx
.
.

Thanks Tommya300, for your interesting reply, I am rather concerned now seeing this from a British/European angle since
I'm aware that their food laws are quite rigid.
So why did the food company concerned (Higgidy) put a poison in
the quiche?   []
I am also thinking that if anyone with epilepsy like myself might have
a skin reaction?

I actually asked my doctor this a while ago, and it seems that tommya300 had a very accurate answer. The main danger is that it is carcinogenic. But be careful when saying that "it seems a bit odd to have a chemical in any food." Everything is comprised of chemicals, table salt, humans, air...

Thanks Bill,D.Katt for your reply, yes I realise that it is a carcinogenic
chemical that should never have been put in food.

Of course everything comprises of chemical like you said, salt, even fresh fruit and/or veg.

Rosalind

9

Chemistry / What is Sodium Nitrite?? Also what is used for ??

« on: 17/07/2010 01:20:56 »

I wonder if you can help me sort out this question please that's been
bothering me for a while now.

Recently I bought a quiche with bacon, eggs, pastry but also with
Sodium Nitrite. It seems a bit odd to have a chemical in any food,
I think.

What is this chemical and is harmful to humans?

If so what kind of reaction might they have?

Thanks loads,
Rosalind

10

Just Chat! / does breeding a cat reduce the stess ?

« on: 22/05/2010 15:32:06 »

I have 2 cats and they've taught me how to be patient (sometimes)
also the female cat has to take (eat) her medicines daily because
trying to put pills down her throat would have an unpleasant
reaction (she scratches)

Yes it's statistically studied that furry pets - cats & dogs
do help with calming people down since they've tried in some hospitals.

11

Just Chat! / Forum Game 5 letter words- Change one Letter!

« on: 03/05/2010 15:00:42 »

Turks (people from Turkey, a country that is in between Europe
& Asia)

12

Just Chat! / Forum Game 5 letter words- Change one Letter!

« on: 30/04/2010 18:22:39 »

Yucky

Mucky (take it as you wish)

13

Geology, Palaeontology & Archaeology / Why has Iceland's glacier erupted ? I thought that they are freezing cold ??

« on: 21/04/2010 10:41:03 »

If the other bigger Icelandic volcano explodes ("blows) would
that destroy the whole Island?
Hope not, of course. Because the cooled lava is a good fertilizer
as I'm aware.

I am learning loads reading this thread, thanks everyone for
your interesting posts.

14

Geology, Palaeontology & Archaeology / Why has Iceland's glacier erupted ? I thought that they are freezing cold ??

« on: 19/04/2010 14:49:05 »

Bass
Remember that not all of Iceland is erupting- only one small vent at present.  So the flood danger is only to those people who live downstream of the glacier where the vent is erupting and melting the ice.  Talked with a friend at Cascade Volcano Observatory today who said the eruption is not abating, rather growing more forceful.  I'm afraid this could impact Europe for quite some time, depending on wind directions.

Thanks Bass, but this volcanic eruption has still affected the Icelandic
people badly, I think. That sounds awful and my youngest brother is stuck
in Germany due to the closed Airspace(s) across the UK and Europe.

I doubt it would go that far. Tambora was the largest volcanic eruption in recorded history. The ejecta volume from the eruption is estimated at 160 cubic kilometers of material The current eruption in Iceland is of a relatively small volcano - Nothing like the Tambora eruption.

Jimbob Thanks but isn't there a possibility of bigger volcano exploding
nearer to the present one?
Although it's causing lots of disruption to businesses, schools even health
things like bone marrow which as far as I can work out is useless after
72 hours.

15

Geology, Palaeontology & Archaeology / Why has Iceland's glacier erupted ? I thought that they are freezing cold ??

« on: 16/04/2010 18:10:21 »

Part of Iceland is on the North American Plate, and part is on the Eurasian Plate.

The good news about these types of volcanoes is that they don't tend to explode since they are basaltic- however, they can expel large volumes of gasses and ash.

Bass, so that's more likely to erode over time than explode.
That's why there are still no flights allowed over Europe and that it
might get as far as Greece by tonight.
But they do melt which could mean that the whole of Iceland would be drowned?
Yes I am probably being over pessimistic

16

Geology, Palaeontology & Archaeology / Why has Iceland's glacier erupted ? I thought that they are freezing cold ??

« on: 16/04/2010 10:07:55 »

As JimBob stated, it's the volcano under the ice that erupted.  The whole of Iceland is volcanic- even if it is far enough north to be covered with glaciers.

Iceland sits astride the volcanic rift zone that runs the length of the Atlantic ocean.  This is a divergent margin- meaning that the tectonic plates are pulling away from each other and the Atlantic is slowly growing larger.  The rift zone is where the plates actually pull apart, easily allowing volcanic material to reach the surface.  On top of that, Iceland also sits on a "hotspot"- the lavas that erupt in Iceland probably come from deep in the mantle.

There have been 2 very large Icelandic eruptions in the past ~1000 years, Eldgjá around 935-940 AD and Laki in the 1780's.  Laki, which released large amounts of sulfur dioxide, may be partly to blame for the intensity of the Little Ice Age.

Thanks Bass, I wasn't aware before yesterday just how volcanic Iceland is, but as you said that the Atlantic is growing slowly that might affect the rest of Northern Europe even possibly America??

Which tectonic plates is Iceland on?
But it must dreadful for the Icelandic people now, not knowing whether or not a bigger volcano will explode or not, as predicted.

Yes I think that the sulphur dioxide is in the numerous geysers, I think.

 

17

Geology, Palaeontology & Archaeology / Why has Iceland's glacier erupted ? I thought that they are freezing cold ??

« on: 15/04/2010 17:06:47 »

Thanks Jimbob, but it's still a mystery to me although I do know that Iceland has a lot of bubbling geysers there.

But it looks the normal spring overcast weather just like it's done for days before this Icelandic volcano erupted. That seems odd to me.

18

Geology, Palaeontology & Archaeology / Why has Iceland's glacier erupted ? I thought that they are freezing cold ??

« on: 15/04/2010 16:15:11 »

I have heard the news today about Iceland's glacier erupting with volcanic
ash all over Iceland and other Northern European countries including Ireland,
England, Scotland, Wales also Norway, Sweden also Finland's airspace have
all been closed possibly until Saturday or longer because the volcanic ash
is covering the upper air as far as I understand.

What I don't understand is just how can a freezing cold glacier erupt?

It seems totally impossible to my non-scientific mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_eruption_of_Eyjafjallaj%C3%B6kull

I wonder if anyone can help please.

Rosalind

19

Just Chat! / Forum Game 5 letter words- Change one Letter!

« on: 28/02/2010 17:11:29 »

Flows

20

Just Chat! / Forum Game 5 letter words- Change one Letter!

« on: 24/02/2010 18:09:03 »

Crime