Naked Science Forum
General Discussion & Feedback => Just Chat! => Topic started by: Pseudoscience-is-malarkey on 04/07/2018 02:06:47
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A year before his death, centenarian John Gray (born, raised, died in my hometown) told a reporter that he had not ate meat since he was twelve. He said its the key to longevity. I myself am skeptical of that, but... I don't know...
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It is true and has been researched, but the findings are interesting.
There are sufficient vegetarians in a country that you can compare them to the local population without having to compare Japanese to N Americans etc. In US, UK and Germany (if I remember correctly) vegetarians had less CHD and lived longer than local population.
However, profile of vegetarians shows they rarely smoke, few are overweight, they often exercise, they are concerned about their health, they eat a lot of vegetables (may seem obvious but doesnt have to be true). A similar study of people who were concerned about their health showed a similar profile and longevity but what was surprising was that this group had a very high proportion of people who ate meat only occasionally eg once a week. There has been other research showing possible link between red meat consumption and CHD.
I’ll see if I can dig out the papers.
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My grandmother, who had a fish shop,used to quote her father to customers "If you eat fish for a hundred years, you will live a long time".
That said, it is fairly obvious that vegetables carry fewer potential human pathogens than meat, so it is likely that vegetarians suffer fewer minor heath insults in a lifetime and therefore are likely to live longer. In western society there is a degree of self-selection as Colin points out: veggies are generally more health conscious and tend to be better educated and wealthier than average too.
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That said, it is fairly obvious that vegetables carry fewer potential human pathogens than meat, s
It's fairly obvious that we almost always cook meat, but some veg and many fruit are eaten raw.
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That's fine of you only eat "junk food" - it's safe! Hamburgers are (or should be) throughly cooked at a high temperature and served immediately into a bun loaded with pickled bits and pieces that have been prepared in a sterile factory and never touched by human hand.
Worth listening to the radio health warnings about chicken, for instance, pointing out that handling, washing and neatly deboning your poulet cordon bleu a la mode de Kiev distributes salmonella bacteria over the entire kitchen. It's also interesting to consider the heat diffusion and pathogen reproduction equations for chateaubriand prepare sous vide: the simple answer is "don't try this at home".
If I sound a trifle cynical, it may be because I'm grounded for a week as a result of a very posh lunch!
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Thanks for pointing out that I was right to say " we almost always cook meat".
I presume you consider the roast beef of old England, and an Irish stew to be "junk food". That's an unorthodox view.
Did the posh lunch feature boiled rice?
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Re: Is vegetarianism really healthy?
Not sure, really can't say.
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But it's definitely a lot more moral & ethical' if & when ' compared to meatatarianism.
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P.S. - Although the same interpretation could be applied when comparing meatatarianism to cannibalism.
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On a related note
https://policehour.co.uk/2018/07/urgent-national-frozen-veg-recall-after-nine-dead/
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I presume you consider the roast beef of old England, and an Irish stew to be "junk food". That's an unorthodox view.
What most politicians and middle-class food fascists call "junk" often contains less fat and sugar than posh food - or even Irish stew (best with untrimmed mutton) or roast beef (well marbled). Steak tartare is nothing more than an uncooked burger, and surely nobody would eat sushi if it was called "multiply-handled raw fish that has been lying about on a boat for a few daysten driven around the country and allowed to warm up to room temperature". Interestingly, colleagues who worked on the irradiation of food said that catch-irradiated fish never tasted "fishy": it turns out that much of the flavor derives from bacteria introduced by handling and decay.
I recall that McDonald's salads have a higher calorific content than a Big Mac, thanks to the "healthy dressing"!
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catch-irradiated fish never tasted "fishy": it turns out that much of the flavor derives from bacteria introduced by handling and decay.
I can't vouch for irradiated fish, but if you take it out of the sea, gut it and fry it, fish doesn't taste of trimethylamine which is the characteristic "fishy" smell.
Many fish use trimethylamine oxide (which is odourless) to maintain osmotic balance. It's only when the bacteria convert it to the free amine that you get the "fish" smell.
It's interesting to note that fish is often served with lemon or vinegar- the acids protonate the trimethylamine rendering it involatile and thus odourless.
(None of this will stop me having fish + chips tonight)
But we seem to have drifted from the point.
It's almost impossible to know if vegetarianism is healthy; but we do know of a few carcinogens that are much more common in cooked meat than in cooked veg.
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He said that during the Revolutionary War meat was almost never eaten. Each regiment had "experts" on foraging, often exploiting the more overlooked and ubiquitous crops of Earth's bounty and turning them into dinner.
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I can't vouch for irradiated fish
Sounds to me like you need to move from Chernobyl :D
I think we all worry about our health and dietary needs. I think being a vegan would be unhealthy , but vegetarians are not so strict so can have more nutrients in the diet . Herbivores not having the ''stomach'' a carnivore has for blood dripping steaks and the thought it was some animal. Now fish are not very nice , but I do eat fish occasionally , I eat vegetables or pasta probably more often than I eat meat. I prefer chicken of all the meats although I do like a burger.
I mix my diet and at my age I still feel pretty healthy and touch wood, rarely go to the doctors.
Admit tingly I need to get some exercise as I am getting lazy in the sense of being mobile. I tried once to be a vegetarian and I felt weak, so I conclude some meat is needed in the diet and that is why our teethe are 'designed'' to be carnivorous , to serve a purpose of hereditary tendencies .
P.s I always avoid fizzy drinks, they are not good . I prefer pure apple juice or blackcurrant juice.
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Sounds to me like you need to move from Chernobyl
Then you need to learn to read.
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Now fish are not very nice ,
What??
Fish are delicious. We had trout last night which I grilled with fresh coriander leaves and I picked up some hake for tomorrow night, both are extremely tasty fish.
Perhaps you've been eating your carp, which I admit can taste muddy.
that is why our teethe are 'designed'' to be carnivorous , to serve a purpose of hereditary tendencies .
Our teeth are typically omnivore teeth, but tending more towards the veg side rather than true carnivore.
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Sounds to me like you need to move from Chernobyl
Then you need to learn to read.
I think you missed the joke there, irradiated fish -nuclear disaster
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Now fish are not very nice ,
What??
Fish are delicious. We had trout last night which I grilled with fresh coriander leaves and I picked up some hake for tomorrow night, both are extremely tasty fish.
Perhaps you've been eating your carp, which I admit can taste muddy.
I could never eat a carp lol, well never is a long time so maybe if I needed too. I prefer cod and chips with a slice of lemon and salt and vinegar. I don't mind cod to be honest , I also like scampi , I find lobster and other sea food, a bit too fishy in taste. I worry about fish bones more than eating fish . Pasta and a sauce is always a good simple healthy meal or rice and curry sauce as a no meat option.
Vegetarians eat eggs?
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The Middle Eastern religious prohibition on pork (which extends to several Indian groups too) almost certainly derives from our common parasitic tapeworm, and kosher/halal slaughter seems to have some basis in the elimination or reduction of blood-borne infection.
I believe ovine liver fluke can infect humans but the cradle of modern religions is generally too dry to support the free-living phase so it isn't considered significant.
The kosher ban on shellfish seems sensible in the context of a society without proper sewage treatment, though as Clement Freud observed, no god is worth giving up lobster for.
There is a general distaste for eating carnivorous mammals, and a kosher ban on rabbit - can anyone rationalise these?
A good friend is allergic to mammal meat. Turns out this is a common consequence of being bitten by the "Lone Star Tick" - nature reasserting itself in Texas!
I'm quite sure that the entire political problem of the middle east revolves around cooking meat with milk: forbidden by Leviticus, but an essential part of the Arab diet. So at least one part of the "veggies for peace" campaign makes sense.
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The Middle Eastern religious prohibition on pork
I find pork, smells ''funny'', I don't really like pork.
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I'm quite sure that the entire political problem of the middle east revolves around cooking meat with milk:
Interesting, if somebody drinks milk and eats meat separate , it would be contradictory to say cooking meat with milk is a bad thing. It all gets mixed in the stomach anyway .
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What!
You mean that you do cook meat with milk?
How dare you? The Bible forbids it.
Exodus 23:19
Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.
Seriously, it's important to recognise that we don't know to what extent these rules arose from food hygiene (in a group of people who couldn't have understood the principles involved) and how much was due to just having rules that were different from the "Other People".
China eats pork - it doesn't seem to have done them any harm.
Sounds to me like you need to move from Chernobyl
Then you need to learn to read.
I think you missed the joke there, irradiated fish -nuclear disaster
Yes, and you missed the fact that I said I had not had irradiated fish.
One factor involved in that is that I haven't been to Chernobyl.
So why did you tell me to leave?
It's not that I missed the joke; it just doesn't make sense.
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it just doesn't make sense.
It did't make sense so you missed the joke, I never said you was in Russia lol . If the question of meat and milk was for me, I have never cooked meat in milk and never would, it would make no sense to me to do that .
I cook meat well done, in the oven where it is meant to go, get it really hot killing germs and bacteria.
As for pork, I am not religious, I just don't particular like pork although I have ate it.
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I have never cooked meat in milk and never would, it would make no sense to me to do that .
Enjoy your cheeseburger or chicken a la king.
I never said you was in Russia lol .
You said I should leave Chernobyl.
Sounds to me like you need to move from Chernobyl
I think it's in Ukraine, rather than Russia- but that's beside the point.
I couldn't leave a place I had never been- so it makes no sense.
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Chernobyl.
The irradiated fish would make sense to Chernobyl , never mind, consider it a lame joke.
I love a cheeseburger lol with a nice salad on it , a bit of meat and bit of goodness all in one. I am from the 'streets'' remember, beans on toast rules lol.
I find science in everything .
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If I ate lets say 70 garden peas, does that mean I have ate 70 portions of veg or just one portion ?
added , I just realised these amitripyline the doc gives me to help me sleep don't really agree with me , think i should stop taking them ?
added- they make me feel a bit paranoid and on edge and the screen seems dead bright ,
got a numb head too, i have not took in days until tonight
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If I ate lets say 70 garden peas, does that mean I have ate 70 portions of veg or just one portion ?
80g is portion size for veg.
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I just realised these amitripyline the doc gives me to help me sleep don't really agree with me , think i should stop taking them ?
Ask your doctor.
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I just realised these amitripyline the doc gives me to help me sleep don't really agree with me , think i should stop taking them ?
Ask your doctor.
Well , there is that , I just don't like pestering the doctors but perhaps I had better give him a phone call.
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Vegetarianism is not harmful, that is what I know for sure